Salary Negotiation | No BS Job Search Advice Radio

By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter

EP 1509 On this show, I talk with Peggy McKee of Career Confidential about a different approach to salary negotiation.

This interview was originally recorded for my second show, Job Search Radio, in 2014

 

Read Full Transcript

hi this is Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
and you're listening to job search radio
salary negotiation one of the most
frightening thing is that most job
hunters engaging as part of their job
search and when they do it they do it
badly matter of fact most salary
negotiation that job hunters do
translate into them going give me any
more I want more I did or the other side
sitting back with their arms folded
saying I don't think so come on gimme it
gimme it no I'm not quite sure and
that's as much negotiating as as most
people do now on my show to this week I
have a guest that's going to show you a
great way to negotiate that puts a
positive spin on it that's real
easygoing that comes from her experience
growing up with a dad who did who raised
horses and how he would wind up
negotiating with people who want to buy
horses from them so sit back listen to
this show she is a hoot great guest
[Music]
are you looking for a new job or
interested in leveling up job search
radio is your go-to resource for insider
tips on job hunting and grow your career
here's your host Jeff opening so my
guest on this show is Peggy McKee the
CEO of career confidential a career
coaching and advisory firm Peggy welcome
to job search radio tell my listeners
about yourself in the firm well thank
you Jeff thanks so much for inviting me
on here I know that we have a topic that
is going to be very interesting to your
listeners my name is taking the key I am
the CEO of career confidential I have
been an executive search recruiter with
my own firm PhD consulting and the CEO
of career confidential I've done
recruiting and career coaching at all
levels for the last 15 years and at
career confidential we started in 2009
we now have over 18,000 clients in more
than 90 countries and what we do is
we're giving that employees that job
seeker that careerist tools and
advantages to get farther ahead in the
way that they want to get where they
want to go so we're bought we're
knocking down obstacles and barriers and
helping people get where they want to go
in their career fabulous so let me paint
a situation for you this week I was
talking with God making back to the
quarter 250 general manager for a
well-known organization he's finished
interviewing he's received an offer he
was a little bit less than what he was
looking for so he goes back and forth
with the owner of the firm a few to
openly and suddenly the guy turns around
to him and says you know I think I've
had enough I'm done I'm pulling the
offer I think that's what every job
hunters afraid of when they start doing
the salary negotiation that this job
that they'd worked so hard to get is
going to get taken away from them so let
me just have one question should someone
go out and go
absolutely oh shiettt ago she ate there
are many reasons to negotiate and we can
also address that situation with the
with the with the gentleman that you're
speaking about but you need you want me
to go ahead and elaborate on why you
need to negotiate absolutely well I was
sitting here thinking about this before
the show and the reason you have to
negotiate or that you should is that if
you do it correctly it never hurts okay
i would i would submit to you that the
gentleman who negotiated with that owner
did not do it the way that i would
suggest that you do so pay attention to
the rest of the show because i'll
explain to you what i mean by that so
one it never hurts if you do it right to
you may be leaving money on the table
that you could have flayed family based
on the value that you bring to the
organization and if you don't ask you
won't know three is show's executive and
communication skills which is what you
want to do even if you don't receive a
concession it will still make you look
and seem more valuable to them and for
it sets a value for you i know that when
we talked a couple we feel and you'd
asked if I'd come on to the show and we
had talked about the speed on the hot
topic I had just gotten an email from a
gentleman who told me hey Peggy you know
I tried to do it when my when I got my
job offer I was unemployed tried the
negotiations that you told me they told
me that they could not do some of the
things and other things they did do they
brought me on board and here's my great
story for you Peggy three months after
being on board I have exceeded their
expectations and my manager just came in
and actually gave me the pay that I had
asked for in the initial negotiations
because they were so thrilled with what
I'd done now when I came into the
organization I hadn't set that value for
myself but I asked for more so they
thought i knew that i felt that i was
worth more than then I delivered and
then guess what I got it now is that
always going to work out but no I'd say
no but Jeff for that gentleman would
that manager have come in and given him
raised without that no oh no because he
he
created that thought in that managers
mind and even though he didn't get it he
did increase and improve his value and
then now it's actually paying him in his
checkbook right and that's exactly what
someone needs to do from my vantage get
angry with you always happen ago she ate
because let's work with the assumption
of this individual didn't do it
correctly and at the end of the day
annoyed someone sufficiently that they
pull the offer but for most individuals
as you said it demonstrates leadership
does after all why would you possibly
take the first thing we offer to you
edgeley sure worst comes to worst hmm
and if they can't you can have good
circumstances come later so I agree with
you wholeheartedly but this now begs the
question how should someone begin to
negotiate and we can use this purse well
visual as a model for how you talk about
well here's I would submit again and I
don't know your individual but when you
have a situation where you get an offer
rescinded usually there's some other
variables and factors okay here's a few
of them to think about one you can have
a candidate who is getting at a
tremendous offer already who's lucky to
get that offer maybe they've been
unemployed or less than perceived
greatest value and and that person
begins to ask more and doesn't ask for
more with the positive side of
negotiation they say things like I don't
know if I can take this job if you don't
give me X well who likes to be dealt
with that way when you deal with someone
like that you put them on the defense
okay you don't want someone to be
defensive the way that I negotiate in
the way that I coach people to negotiate
is from a positive point of view i want
when i go into negotiation situation i
want to already be visualized
thing that we're going to get along
fabulously that we're going to find
something that's going to be good for
both of us and we're going to both walk
away happy and I'm going to make sure
that happens and notice I didn't just
say what some people will say which is
I'm going to get mine okay that's not
how you negotiate or at least that's not
how you negotiate successfully the way
to negotiate is to create a situation
where everyone wins okay please because
if you have ever positively absolute
interruption from a positive point of
view so and it goes against what some
people believe in Jeff and I have
coached folks as CFO levels in some of
the biggest organizations out there you
would be stunned if I gave you some of
the names of the organization's CFO CEOs
ciose POS and here's what I and some of
them when I say this to them they don't
like it because they want to say if you
don't give me X I won't do why what I
want to say is I want to do y so bad I
can taste it I am so thrilled I'm on
board I'm ready to go we can work out
the start date but before we can do why
I need a little more help with X very
very sweet I like that it's nice and
seeing the other thing is I don't worry
about a lot of people try to come up
with very executive language you know
they want to speak in terms that are
significantly positive for both parties
at the negotiation you know blah blah
blah I know I'm not done a good job I
should have looked up a bunch of words
for you that would have been very big
and impressive a lot of people think
that you got to come at a negotiation
from that side I don't like to negotiate
from that side I go back to my horse
trading days my dad's our answer and we
sold horses and cattle and everything
else under the Sun and he always asked
for more but he didn't make it a very
big decision so he wouldn't say if
someone offered x 4 horse he wouldn't
say oh no I'll never sell that horse
breaks
he would say you know X isn't quite
enough what else could offer you know
another one Adam for something else it
in lieu of e and not being not putting
them on the defense men I think this
horse is right for you and I want to
sell it to you but you know I can't
accept that so where could win it and
maybe it won't work out for us maybe you
can't buy the horse and if you can't
that's okay you still come over and
rider and once in a while you can't
owner because that's going to cost a
little bit more right and so it's a very
positive place to come from where you
don't have to make someone have pain so
I want to say that manager I'm ready to
accept your offer I love this job it's
perfect for me okay now there's a couple
things we have to do though because my
salary it needs to start with a nine
instead of an eight right so what am I
saying there you're wanting to pay me 80
grand to do the job I need 90 I don't
say I'm going to need more money for
compensating me for the abilities and
the skill sets and the experiences that
I'm bringing to the table here I say
Jack man i'm in i can start next monday
on march nine that I guarantee i'm going
to exceed your expectations hey before
we get going though could this number
start with another number other than an
eight I mean is there a possibility it
could start with something else Cheri
berries and I get along and them very
quiet afterwards right and today i'm
gonna lay here for a second what's also
dip which again I know you know this
instinctively you change your tone of
voice that's softer you slowed in beach
to get to that proposal you know and I
was smiling when I said it I wasn't
serious I wasn't uptight my hands are
sweating and I'm not just dying and the
reason I don't have to be that upset and
I don't have to have that amount of
seriousness is because Jeff I'm a
pretender of the manager right Jeff
we're not fighting here we're on the
same
died you want me to come do the job and
I want to come do the job and now you
and I gotta look at this to make sure
that it works for us and then once we
get that ironed out we're good to go so
all I need to know is where can we move
here very very sweet I'm I keep
repeating and there's something that
happens as a recruiter what we'll go
ahead I'm sorry is it very smooth tactic
yes because is that what you're doing is
already accepting the offer one more
thing to cover very nice now wait a
second uh list because that's that's
let's talk about that real quick because
that is a very important piece see in
some the people that have trouble with
that they say well you've given away
your power you're saying you're going to
accept it well no I'm not no I'm not
everything everything but I've said I
want to accept it i said i'm dying to
accepted i said i'm i'm thinking about
how I'm gonna start to tell but hey we
need to do a little something here you
know and see managers if you hit them
with that aggressive tone or that
negative tone they start thinking of
that salary as money out of their own
pocket okay and I had a great manager
one time who taught me a great lesson I
was I had a gentleman I was trying to
hire the guy wanted like 65 I only had
60 he asked for 65 i went from my
manager I'm like he's asking for 65 I
don't think we ought to give it to him
because he I was trying to be a good
steward of the company's money you know
and I thought we could get him is 60 and
my manager said Peggy why do you care if
we pay him 60 or 65 because the truth is
that's not going to come out of your
pocket okay you're not paying it number
one number two if you fail with your
team nobody's going to say she failed
but she didn't pay her team more than
60,000 a year they're going to say she
failed and they're gonna fire your ass
okay so it would be better for you to
get the very best team that you can
possibly put in place and make them the
happiest you can ever make them so that
you exceed your expectations and
everybody goes home happy and I said
okay so you think we should pay him 65
and he goes yes and tell him he better
earn it and I want to pick up there just
give me one moment those folks were
looking at more from pegging in just a
moment but first my insider tip which is
about organizing your search and
tracking your activity I find a lot of
job hunters really think they're doing
more than they do you know they think
they're out there talking a bunch of
people they think they're out there
doing a lot of network they responding
to ads responding dances like spamming
most of the time but that's a different
conversation and what I think people
ought to be doing along the way is
tracking every activity you related to
that you do related to your job search
as a way of demonstrating to yourself
whether or not that's really true I find
most of the people I coach they talk a
good game but when we start breaking it
down of an eight to ten hour work day
maybe there's got two hours of really
productive activities maybe but they've
been doing a whole bunch of stuff like
reviewing their resume for the fifteenth
time so my encouragement to you is spend
a little time you do it online you can
do in our pad however you want to do it
just shot down once you've done about
how long you spent on it and start
reviewing it after a week I think he'll
be pleasantly surprised pleasantly
disappointed you'll find it one way or
the other so let's come back to Peggy
and continue our conversation so I agree
with you and yet managers hold out and
they want to squeeze that five thousand
dollars out of people why
it's childish and immature it's nobody
has taught them that lesson that manager
taught me which is at the end of the day
if you get your job done nobody's going
to care how much you paid that guy but
if you can't get the job done you'll
lose your job so do you want the guy or
not if you wanting making happy making
you know fat telling he owes you
spectacular and sometimes the
negotiations aren't smooth and easy so
in that situation where you they've
offered you a number that begins with an
eight you want to go to a nine let's say
they say we can't quite go to a nice how
do you didn't play it what can you go to
that's the next question what can you do
we've got to keep it exactly where it is
right now folks I'm just doing the the
thing that you think is going to happen
we get that out of the way so we have to
keep it in that where what we proposed
okay so Jeff what you're saying is your
budget as far as the salary piece is set
and you cannot move that it's like a
rock is that what you're saying and
folks did you catch what she said as far
as the salary piece because I have a
hunch we both know where she's going to
go to next now yeah okay when we get
done I've got a horse I want to sell you
or a bridge in Brooklyn yes okay baby I
got that too I got some sugar for your
horse yes
that's right but this is really good and
I know people think a lot of people
think Jeff they think oh my god she is I
could never because I've heard this
right I could never do that and I say
look all I need you to do is just a
little of what I do okay because that's
going to be a whole lot further than
you've ever done before and you're going
to get such great results from it that
you'll you'll be empowered by that and
next time you'll be better and next time
you'll be better and each time you're
going to get better offers you know you
don't have to sound like me yet but you
have to try to do what I ask you to do
and trust me that if you come from and I
know it sounds so crazy Jeff but I am I
tell you I'm just a freak for the
positive and the love thing and I know
that's a lot of people say I don't feel
much positive or much love in this job
search but I feel like thats everywhere
in your life and if you can think it and
be feeling it helps right it takes away
the edge and so if you think hey this
person likes me and they're offering me
a job now I could just take it just the
way that it is but because I'm a
powerful professional and executive and
I've listened to Jeff and Peggy I know I
got to ask for more so all I'm going to
do is say look I definitely am so
excited I want this job thrilling I've
called my wife but can we get this to
start with a seven instead of a six can
we get it to start with a nine instead
of an eight can we move this number can
we add another zero what can we do and
then going back to what we said before
see I did do what you were saying see i
tidied up and made sure that we were
very clear that all that you told me is
that you can't move on the salary okay
that's all you told me and so then when
you say yes that's right Peggy I can't
move on it great talk to me about the
variable compensation is there a bonus
or commission opportunity now what most
people know that it by this point
probably and so let's just like let's
assume they already know that there is
one that they definitely know that there
is one how what part of my compensation
what should I
expect from that Mona's house that I
feel about that well it's going to be
worth this okay great so if I do this
and I'm going to get that absolutely and
then this is where we kind of get into
some tricky things right what if I can
do more than that would you be willing
let's say that you're offering me ten
percent commission on all the sales what
if I do more than two million dollars of
sales can you offer fifteen percent on
anything over two million yeah i'll pay
you twenty percent great can you put
that in writing and folks notes okay put
that in writing it's one of the key
phrases in these negotiations because
once you're getting them off the basic
script you got to get it in writing
right the next thing you can negotiate
for I had a gentleman now rest in peace
he died last year but he knew that he
was stellar at his job as a sales role
and so what he asked for was he knew
they were going to change his commission
he neither women change their base there
were too many reps everybody was the
same level they weren't going to move on
it right but the VP of Sales and
Marketing wanted a specific agenda
achieved and he had some specific things
that he wanted and so this guy Scott
said listen if I do x and y we've I me a
Rolex and the VP said which one snow
there I Rolexes at time grand and those
Rolexes at 30 grand you know and this
guy and I don't pay attention to stuff
Jeff but he picked out one that was a 10
grand watch and he said if I do this I
want this watch and I don't know if he's
got it on him in the grave but he did
get to watch and the reason he got it
was because he negotiated for it and
everybody knew that he did and he knew
he could achieve what he did right the
other thing you can ask for is you can
you can think that if they say no
they're not really saying no they're
saying not now okay great so I
understand it's it's in rock it's in
stone we can't move that at all could we
review my success in three to six months
and see if there's any room for some
agreement there improvement there and
yeah we subtle what you do very very
subtle some way you're just looking at
some variable that would allow them to
make a concession for you I think of it
like a Rubik's Cube you're kind of just
turning it over and over just looking at
all sides because you could get car
allowance you could get you know Golf
Course days you could get the Rolex you
could get additional percentages you
could get a negotiated review in six
months with an additional five percent
based on X you could get and this is
thats why you got to kind of turn it
over and over in your hand and look at
it and think about it right but you're
setting a stretch goal then why
shouldn't you have some more
compensation if you hit it they're gonna
be thrilled everybody's happy because
everyone's making money out of it and
yeah a lot of a lot of your history's
around sales professionals so I want to
see what you think about the non sales
roles where the measures might be a
little bit different so let's say
there's an IT person or accounting
professional where revenue may not
necessarily be the obvious benchmark for
them but there are other benchmarks I
see there are other benchmarks so this
is where you have to be insightful and
have thought out what it is you do that
makes you valuable and some people don't
think about this is funny i'm thinking
about writing a book on you know the
redneck approach to salary negotiations
because i have a buddy a redneck who
does a redneck kind of job and he's
amazing at what he does I guarantee he
makes his company millions of dollars
based on his job okay and he makes like
sixty thousand dollars a year
and he said he called me about something
else and he said well you ought to think
about asking for a raise yeah i'm not
sure i could tell me about the job you
do and what you know and of course he's
putting himself down because rednecks
don't boast about the jobs that they do
by the way there you know good old boys
blue collar professionals they don't
brag about this stuff you know come they
don't right so he's going on but I
started asking some questions where it
was becoming very clear to him you know
he could actually see you're right
nobody else could do that yeah yeah I
did do that yo yes I did that too and
you know what that means and he's like
starting to get into either and I'm like
and you still don't think you're worth
arrays and he goes oh man i'd like to
ask for one but i just don't and see the
reason is is because he thinks he's
going to have to go in there and say I'm
going to quit if you don't give me this
and I don't think he has to do that I
think he goes and then says I love
working for you guys I'd like to be paid
a little more for what I do let me tell
you about what I do maybe you'll be okay
with it too you know so it's not the I'm
not going to give you this it's yes yes
yes but let's work on this there's no no
to it so that's what so your gentleman
that got his offer within that there's a
couple different things that could have
happened number one it wasn't a solid
offer anyway number two he was an on the
fence candidate they didn't really love
him they were settling for him and then
when he made noises they said forget it
we're done with you number three you
mentioned he went back multiple times I
am NOT up for this I can't stand it when
someone tells you they know how to
negotiate but they want to negotiate one
piece and then have another meeting to
negotiate another piece have another
meeting demand and you're going when are
you done see that's when it becomes
tiresome and that's what I say you know
what maybe we should move on see because
you've made me cranky right because
you're not playing but I love you You
Love Me rule you're trying to still
squeeze stuff out of me we didn't come
to an agreement right of course I know I
yes and that's why he got the offer
rescinded I guarantee
and to add to it I bet he had a negative
tone in it so they didn't even feel like
he loved the job already anyway see so
they weren't feeling any love and it's
kind of like asking a check out to the
prom and you know you've already you
know po need up for the limo you've
already pointed up for a decent
restaurant you know you're getting the
tux and she's going well I'm not you
know yeah you need to be tiny bobby pin
I am she needs to go man I am so excited
to go on the phone with you hey can you
go ahead and get him okay roses to go
with that to please you know see good
we're gonna have a good time you see you
understand it it's an emotional thing
that's a big part of what people don't
get that's a big opportunity is try to
look at the job search almost like a
dating relationship when you're in the
interview you're dating so dating people
don't and forgive me if I move over any
lines that people don't like but when
you're dating you don't leave the
toothpaste off the toothpaste thing
right you don't leave the toilet lid a
boy shouldn't be doing that if you're
dating you you know you open doors you
say nice things you give them nice notes
because you're fresh in this
relationship and you want to make sure
they know just how much you like them
right that's the way it is in the
interview when you get to the
negotiation that's like them asking you
to marry them do you think a guy wants
to get down on his knees and have bought
a big ring right and told people that
he's going to do this because he has to
tell him because he had to have help
picking out the ring right and now he's
going to get on his knees and he's gonna
say I want to get married and you're
gonna go oh I don't know that rings not
quite as bright as I wanted no I can't
hear ya who wants hear that you want to
hear yes I'm so glad you asked I can't
wait but I don't like pear-shaped
diamonds can we get a square one yes
okay let's do it you see so I'm saying
yes let's get married and when you're in
the negotiation make sure you're showing
love just like you would with the tip
that you're trying
very easy ones in and interviewing
itself is kind of like blind dating you
should be have been told something about
one another that hope is true and then
the interviews are basically designed to
confirm it because at the end of the day
yeah what full of love at the end of all
these interviews yes yes but they don't
know how it's going to go and if you
make them feel cranky about it or if you
put them at risk by acting freaky all
they're done because what probably a lot
of job seekers don't understand this win
and when a manager makes you an offer
he's betting on you and everybody knows
it so then if you decide not to take
that offer its exist you turned him down
to the prom and everybody knows he asked
you and at the end of the day he's he or
she doesn't want to be in the situation
where they have to start all over they
put it out there and maybe offer
everyone knows their boss knows he
rejected boy horrible set of
circumstances so they want to close it's
not good not good for your political
career if that happens happens too
frequently to too many people hey Peggy
we're starting time with one another are
there any other points that you want to
make so that maybe another time well I
feel like I feel like we've offered them
a lot of information that for many of
these people can be you know pretty
life-changing if you can use these skill
sets you've got to expect something
positive is going to happen you've got
to make that other person feel the love
and then asked for and think of it kind
of like I did about the Rubik's Cube
just kind of turn it over and look is
there something that I don't know about
because there could be value in there
that you don't that you just didn't
readily understand sorry price
hey how can folks find out about you and
your farm they can look at career
confidential dot-com that's our website
career confidential calm and like I said
we have 18,000 clients in over 90
countries who use our tips and tools to
get the job that they want the other
thing is I want to let you guys know we
have a product and I sent you the link
so that you could share with them that
is a salary negotiations product and it
involves an e book written by Jack
Chapman who's one of the best salary
negotiators in the world okay so they
6th edition of an e-book it also has an
hour webinar between Jack and I going
over these kinds of things that we just
went over with you and it has an
additional hour and a half of Jack's
audio going over some other salary and
compensation conversations so that you
can kind of steep yourself in this
vernacular and it's going to help you do
better when you get to that negotiation
table so you guys can you can give them
that link and again they can also look
for go to career confidential com they
can also call us on our phone number 806
912 562 Peggy's thank you I really
appreciate for making time well I
appreciate ya know it's a great topic
folks wasn't Peggy terrific I think she
was I'm sure you do too she's giving you
tons of great advice and I want to
encourage you visit itunes give job
search radio a great review because it's
going to help other people discover this
interview with others that i've done and
provide them with great information to
help them with their job search to also
want to mention if we're not already
connected on LinkedIn connect with me
there my page there is linkedin.com/in/TheBigGameHunter I
look forward to connecting with you
there I look forward to coming back next
time with another great guest to help
you with your search
for more job search advice visit Jeff's
website, TheBigGameHunter.us
That's TheBigGameHunter.us
[Music]

You may also like, “When Does Salary Negotiation Start”

Read Full Transcript

hi this is Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
and you're listening to job search radio
salary negotiation one of the most
frightening thing is that most job
hunters engaging as part of their job
search and when they do it they do it
badly matter of fact most salary
negotiation that job hunters do
translate into them going give me any
more I want more I did or the other side
sitting back with their arms folded
saying I don't think so come on gimme it
gimme it no I'm not quite sure and
that's as much negotiating as as most
people do now on my show to this week I
have a guest that's going to show you a
great way to negotiate that puts a
positive spin on it that's real
easygoing that comes from her experience
growing up with a dad who did who raised
horses and how he would wind up
negotiating with people who want to buy
horses from them so sit back listen to
this show she is a hoot great guest
[Music]
are you looking for a new job or
interested in leveling up job search
radio is your go-to resource for insider
tips on job hunting and grow your career
here's your host Jeff opening so my
guest on this show is Peggy McKee the
CEO of career confidential a career
coaching and advisory firm Peggy welcome
to job search radio tell my listeners
about yourself in the firm well thank
you Jeff thanks so much for inviting me
on here I know that we have a topic that
is going to be very interesting to your
listeners my name is taking the key I am
the CEO of career confidential I have
been an executive search recruiter with
my own firm PhD consulting and the CEO
of career confidential I've done
recruiting and career coaching at all
levels for the last 15 years and at
career confidential we started in 2009
we now have over 18,000 clients in more
than 90 countries and what we do is
we're giving that employees that job
seeker that careerist tools and
advantages to get farther ahead in the
way that they want to get where they
want to go so we're bought we're
knocking down obstacles and barriers and
helping people get where they want to go
in their career fabulous so let me paint
a situation for you this week I was
talking with God making back to the
quarter 250 general manager for a
well-known organization he's finished
interviewing he's received an offer he
was a little bit less than what he was
looking for so he goes back and forth
with the owner of the firm a few to
openly and suddenly the guy turns around
to him and says you know I think I've
had enough I'm done I'm pulling the
offer I think that's what every job
hunters afraid of when they start doing
the salary negotiation that this job
that they'd worked so hard to get is
going to get taken away from them so let
me just have one question should someone
go out and go
absolutely oh shiettt ago she ate there
are many reasons to negotiate and we can
also address that situation with the
with the with the gentleman that you're
speaking about but you need you want me
to go ahead and elaborate on why you
need to negotiate absolutely well I was
sitting here thinking about this before
the show and the reason you have to
negotiate or that you should is that if
you do it correctly it never hurts okay
i would i would submit to you that the
gentleman who negotiated with that owner
did not do it the way that i would
suggest that you do so pay attention to
the rest of the show because i'll
explain to you what i mean by that so
one it never hurts if you do it right to
you may be leaving money on the table
that you could have flayed family based
on the value that you bring to the
organization and if you don't ask you
won't know three is show's executive and
communication skills which is what you
want to do even if you don't receive a
concession it will still make you look
and seem more valuable to them and for
it sets a value for you i know that when
we talked a couple we feel and you'd
asked if I'd come on to the show and we
had talked about the speed on the hot
topic I had just gotten an email from a
gentleman who told me hey Peggy you know
I tried to do it when my when I got my
job offer I was unemployed tried the
negotiations that you told me they told
me that they could not do some of the
things and other things they did do they
brought me on board and here's my great
story for you Peggy three months after
being on board I have exceeded their
expectations and my manager just came in
and actually gave me the pay that I had
asked for in the initial negotiations
because they were so thrilled with what
I'd done now when I came into the
organization I hadn't set that value for
myself but I asked for more so they
thought i knew that i felt that i was
worth more than then I delivered and
then guess what I got it now is that
always going to work out but no I'd say
no but Jeff for that gentleman would
that manager have come in and given him
raised without that no oh no because he
he
created that thought in that managers
mind and even though he didn't get it he
did increase and improve his value and
then now it's actually paying him in his
checkbook right and that's exactly what
someone needs to do from my vantage get
angry with you always happen ago she ate
because let's work with the assumption
of this individual didn't do it
correctly and at the end of the day
annoyed someone sufficiently that they
pull the offer but for most individuals
as you said it demonstrates leadership
does after all why would you possibly
take the first thing we offer to you
edgeley sure worst comes to worst hmm
and if they can't you can have good
circumstances come later so I agree with
you wholeheartedly but this now begs the
question how should someone begin to
negotiate and we can use this purse well
visual as a model for how you talk about
well here's I would submit again and I
don't know your individual but when you
have a situation where you get an offer
rescinded usually there's some other
variables and factors okay here's a few
of them to think about one you can have
a candidate who is getting at a
tremendous offer already who's lucky to
get that offer maybe they've been
unemployed or less than perceived
greatest value and and that person
begins to ask more and doesn't ask for
more with the positive side of
negotiation they say things like I don't
know if I can take this job if you don't
give me X well who likes to be dealt
with that way when you deal with someone
like that you put them on the defense
okay you don't want someone to be
defensive the way that I negotiate in
the way that I coach people to negotiate
is from a positive point of view i want
when i go into negotiation situation i
want to already be visualized
thing that we're going to get along
fabulously that we're going to find
something that's going to be good for
both of us and we're going to both walk
away happy and I'm going to make sure
that happens and notice I didn't just
say what some people will say which is
I'm going to get mine okay that's not
how you negotiate or at least that's not
how you negotiate successfully the way
to negotiate is to create a situation
where everyone wins okay please because
if you have ever positively absolute
interruption from a positive point of
view so and it goes against what some
people believe in Jeff and I have
coached folks as CFO levels in some of
the biggest organizations out there you
would be stunned if I gave you some of
the names of the organization's CFO CEOs
ciose POS and here's what I and some of
them when I say this to them they don't
like it because they want to say if you
don't give me X I won't do why what I
want to say is I want to do y so bad I
can taste it I am so thrilled I'm on
board I'm ready to go we can work out
the start date but before we can do why
I need a little more help with X very
very sweet I like that it's nice and
seeing the other thing is I don't worry
about a lot of people try to come up
with very executive language you know
they want to speak in terms that are
significantly positive for both parties
at the negotiation you know blah blah
blah I know I'm not done a good job I
should have looked up a bunch of words
for you that would have been very big
and impressive a lot of people think
that you got to come at a negotiation
from that side I don't like to negotiate
from that side I go back to my horse
trading days my dad's our answer and we
sold horses and cattle and everything
else under the Sun and he always asked
for more but he didn't make it a very
big decision so he wouldn't say if
someone offered x 4 horse he wouldn't
say oh no I'll never sell that horse
breaks
he would say you know X isn't quite
enough what else could offer you know
another one Adam for something else it
in lieu of e and not being not putting
them on the defense men I think this
horse is right for you and I want to
sell it to you but you know I can't
accept that so where could win it and
maybe it won't work out for us maybe you
can't buy the horse and if you can't
that's okay you still come over and
rider and once in a while you can't
owner because that's going to cost a
little bit more right and so it's a very
positive place to come from where you
don't have to make someone have pain so
I want to say that manager I'm ready to
accept your offer I love this job it's
perfect for me okay now there's a couple
things we have to do though because my
salary it needs to start with a nine
instead of an eight right so what am I
saying there you're wanting to pay me 80
grand to do the job I need 90 I don't
say I'm going to need more money for
compensating me for the abilities and
the skill sets and the experiences that
I'm bringing to the table here I say
Jack man i'm in i can start next monday
on march nine that I guarantee i'm going
to exceed your expectations hey before
we get going though could this number
start with another number other than an
eight I mean is there a possibility it
could start with something else Cheri
berries and I get along and them very
quiet afterwards right and today i'm
gonna lay here for a second what's also
dip which again I know you know this
instinctively you change your tone of
voice that's softer you slowed in beach
to get to that proposal you know and I
was smiling when I said it I wasn't
serious I wasn't uptight my hands are
sweating and I'm not just dying and the
reason I don't have to be that upset and
I don't have to have that amount of
seriousness is because Jeff I'm a
pretender of the manager right Jeff
we're not fighting here we're on the
same
died you want me to come do the job and
I want to come do the job and now you
and I gotta look at this to make sure
that it works for us and then once we
get that ironed out we're good to go so
all I need to know is where can we move
here very very sweet I'm I keep
repeating and there's something that
happens as a recruiter what we'll go
ahead I'm sorry is it very smooth tactic
yes because is that what you're doing is
already accepting the offer one more
thing to cover very nice now wait a
second uh list because that's that's
let's talk about that real quick because
that is a very important piece see in
some the people that have trouble with
that they say well you've given away
your power you're saying you're going to
accept it well no I'm not no I'm not
everything everything but I've said I
want to accept it i said i'm dying to
accepted i said i'm i'm thinking about
how I'm gonna start to tell but hey we
need to do a little something here you
know and see managers if you hit them
with that aggressive tone or that
negative tone they start thinking of
that salary as money out of their own
pocket okay and I had a great manager
one time who taught me a great lesson I
was I had a gentleman I was trying to
hire the guy wanted like 65 I only had
60 he asked for 65 i went from my
manager I'm like he's asking for 65 I
don't think we ought to give it to him
because he I was trying to be a good
steward of the company's money you know
and I thought we could get him is 60 and
my manager said Peggy why do you care if
we pay him 60 or 65 because the truth is
that's not going to come out of your
pocket okay you're not paying it number
one number two if you fail with your
team nobody's going to say she failed
but she didn't pay her team more than
60,000 a year they're going to say she
failed and they're gonna fire your ass
okay so it would be better for you to
get the very best team that you can
possibly put in place and make them the
happiest you can ever make them so that
you exceed your expectations and
everybody goes home happy and I said
okay so you think we should pay him 65
and he goes yes and tell him he better
earn it and I want to pick up there just
give me one moment those folks were
looking at more from pegging in just a
moment but first my insider tip which is
about organizing your search and
tracking your activity I find a lot of
job hunters really think they're doing
more than they do you know they think
they're out there talking a bunch of
people they think they're out there
doing a lot of network they responding
to ads responding dances like spamming
most of the time but that's a different
conversation and what I think people
ought to be doing along the way is
tracking every activity you related to
that you do related to your job search
as a way of demonstrating to yourself
whether or not that's really true I find
most of the people I coach they talk a
good game but when we start breaking it
down of an eight to ten hour work day
maybe there's got two hours of really
productive activities maybe but they've
been doing a whole bunch of stuff like
reviewing their resume for the fifteenth
time so my encouragement to you is spend
a little time you do it online you can
do in our pad however you want to do it
just shot down once you've done about
how long you spent on it and start
reviewing it after a week I think he'll
be pleasantly surprised pleasantly
disappointed you'll find it one way or
the other so let's come back to Peggy
and continue our conversation so I agree
with you and yet managers hold out and
they want to squeeze that five thousand
dollars out of people why
it's childish and immature it's nobody
has taught them that lesson that manager
taught me which is at the end of the day
if you get your job done nobody's going
to care how much you paid that guy but
if you can't get the job done you'll
lose your job so do you want the guy or
not if you wanting making happy making
you know fat telling he owes you
spectacular and sometimes the
negotiations aren't smooth and easy so
in that situation where you they've
offered you a number that begins with an
eight you want to go to a nine let's say
they say we can't quite go to a nice how
do you didn't play it what can you go to
that's the next question what can you do
we've got to keep it exactly where it is
right now folks I'm just doing the the
thing that you think is going to happen
we get that out of the way so we have to
keep it in that where what we proposed
okay so Jeff what you're saying is your
budget as far as the salary piece is set
and you cannot move that it's like a
rock is that what you're saying and
folks did you catch what she said as far
as the salary piece because I have a
hunch we both know where she's going to
go to next now yeah okay when we get
done I've got a horse I want to sell you
or a bridge in Brooklyn yes okay baby I
got that too I got some sugar for your
horse yes
that's right but this is really good and
I know people think a lot of people
think Jeff they think oh my god she is I
could never because I've heard this
right I could never do that and I say
look all I need you to do is just a
little of what I do okay because that's
going to be a whole lot further than
you've ever done before and you're going
to get such great results from it that
you'll you'll be empowered by that and
next time you'll be better and next time
you'll be better and each time you're
going to get better offers you know you
don't have to sound like me yet but you
have to try to do what I ask you to do
and trust me that if you come from and I
know it sounds so crazy Jeff but I am I
tell you I'm just a freak for the
positive and the love thing and I know
that's a lot of people say I don't feel
much positive or much love in this job
search but I feel like thats everywhere
in your life and if you can think it and
be feeling it helps right it takes away
the edge and so if you think hey this
person likes me and they're offering me
a job now I could just take it just the
way that it is but because I'm a
powerful professional and executive and
I've listened to Jeff and Peggy I know I
got to ask for more so all I'm going to
do is say look I definitely am so
excited I want this job thrilling I've
called my wife but can we get this to
start with a seven instead of a six can
we get it to start with a nine instead
of an eight can we move this number can
we add another zero what can we do and
then going back to what we said before
see I did do what you were saying see i
tidied up and made sure that we were
very clear that all that you told me is
that you can't move on the salary okay
that's all you told me and so then when
you say yes that's right Peggy I can't
move on it great talk to me about the
variable compensation is there a bonus
or commission opportunity now what most
people know that it by this point
probably and so let's just like let's
assume they already know that there is
one that they definitely know that there
is one how what part of my compensation
what should I
expect from that Mona's house that I
feel about that well it's going to be
worth this okay great so if I do this
and I'm going to get that absolutely and
then this is where we kind of get into
some tricky things right what if I can
do more than that would you be willing
let's say that you're offering me ten
percent commission on all the sales what
if I do more than two million dollars of
sales can you offer fifteen percent on
anything over two million yeah i'll pay
you twenty percent great can you put
that in writing and folks notes okay put
that in writing it's one of the key
phrases in these negotiations because
once you're getting them off the basic
script you got to get it in writing
right the next thing you can negotiate
for I had a gentleman now rest in peace
he died last year but he knew that he
was stellar at his job as a sales role
and so what he asked for was he knew
they were going to change his commission
he neither women change their base there
were too many reps everybody was the
same level they weren't going to move on
it right but the VP of Sales and
Marketing wanted a specific agenda
achieved and he had some specific things
that he wanted and so this guy Scott
said listen if I do x and y we've I me a
Rolex and the VP said which one snow
there I Rolexes at time grand and those
Rolexes at 30 grand you know and this
guy and I don't pay attention to stuff
Jeff but he picked out one that was a 10
grand watch and he said if I do this I
want this watch and I don't know if he's
got it on him in the grave but he did
get to watch and the reason he got it
was because he negotiated for it and
everybody knew that he did and he knew
he could achieve what he did right the
other thing you can ask for is you can
you can think that if they say no
they're not really saying no they're
saying not now okay great so I
understand it's it's in rock it's in
stone we can't move that at all could we
review my success in three to six months
and see if there's any room for some
agreement there improvement there and
yeah we subtle what you do very very
subtle some way you're just looking at
some variable that would allow them to
make a concession for you I think of it
like a Rubik's Cube you're kind of just
turning it over and over just looking at
all sides because you could get car
allowance you could get you know Golf
Course days you could get the Rolex you
could get additional percentages you
could get a negotiated review in six
months with an additional five percent
based on X you could get and this is
thats why you got to kind of turn it
over and over in your hand and look at
it and think about it right but you're
setting a stretch goal then why
shouldn't you have some more
compensation if you hit it they're gonna
be thrilled everybody's happy because
everyone's making money out of it and
yeah a lot of a lot of your history's
around sales professionals so I want to
see what you think about the non sales
roles where the measures might be a
little bit different so let's say
there's an IT person or accounting
professional where revenue may not
necessarily be the obvious benchmark for
them but there are other benchmarks I
see there are other benchmarks so this
is where you have to be insightful and
have thought out what it is you do that
makes you valuable and some people don't
think about this is funny i'm thinking
about writing a book on you know the
redneck approach to salary negotiations
because i have a buddy a redneck who
does a redneck kind of job and he's
amazing at what he does I guarantee he
makes his company millions of dollars
based on his job okay and he makes like
sixty thousand dollars a year
and he said he called me about something
else and he said well you ought to think
about asking for a raise yeah i'm not
sure i could tell me about the job you
do and what you know and of course he's
putting himself down because rednecks
don't boast about the jobs that they do
by the way there you know good old boys
blue collar professionals they don't
brag about this stuff you know come they
don't right so he's going on but I
started asking some questions where it
was becoming very clear to him you know
he could actually see you're right
nobody else could do that yeah yeah I
did do that yo yes I did that too and
you know what that means and he's like
starting to get into either and I'm like
and you still don't think you're worth
arrays and he goes oh man i'd like to
ask for one but i just don't and see the
reason is is because he thinks he's
going to have to go in there and say I'm
going to quit if you don't give me this
and I don't think he has to do that I
think he goes and then says I love
working for you guys I'd like to be paid
a little more for what I do let me tell
you about what I do maybe you'll be okay
with it too you know so it's not the I'm
not going to give you this it's yes yes
yes but let's work on this there's no no
to it so that's what so your gentleman
that got his offer within that there's a
couple different things that could have
happened number one it wasn't a solid
offer anyway number two he was an on the
fence candidate they didn't really love
him they were settling for him and then
when he made noises they said forget it
we're done with you number three you
mentioned he went back multiple times I
am NOT up for this I can't stand it when
someone tells you they know how to
negotiate but they want to negotiate one
piece and then have another meeting to
negotiate another piece have another
meeting demand and you're going when are
you done see that's when it becomes
tiresome and that's what I say you know
what maybe we should move on see because
you've made me cranky right because
you're not playing but I love you You
Love Me rule you're trying to still
squeeze stuff out of me we didn't come
to an agreement right of course I know I
yes and that's why he got the offer
rescinded I guarantee
and to add to it I bet he had a negative
tone in it so they didn't even feel like
he loved the job already anyway see so
they weren't feeling any love and it's
kind of like asking a check out to the
prom and you know you've already you
know po need up for the limo you've
already pointed up for a decent
restaurant you know you're getting the
tux and she's going well I'm not you
know yeah you need to be tiny bobby pin
I am she needs to go man I am so excited
to go on the phone with you hey can you
go ahead and get him okay roses to go
with that to please you know see good
we're gonna have a good time you see you
understand it it's an emotional thing
that's a big part of what people don't
get that's a big opportunity is try to
look at the job search almost like a
dating relationship when you're in the
interview you're dating so dating people
don't and forgive me if I move over any
lines that people don't like but when
you're dating you don't leave the
toothpaste off the toothpaste thing
right you don't leave the toilet lid a
boy shouldn't be doing that if you're
dating you you know you open doors you
say nice things you give them nice notes
because you're fresh in this
relationship and you want to make sure
they know just how much you like them
right that's the way it is in the
interview when you get to the
negotiation that's like them asking you
to marry them do you think a guy wants
to get down on his knees and have bought
a big ring right and told people that
he's going to do this because he has to
tell him because he had to have help
picking out the ring right and now he's
going to get on his knees and he's gonna
say I want to get married and you're
gonna go oh I don't know that rings not
quite as bright as I wanted no I can't
hear ya who wants hear that you want to
hear yes I'm so glad you asked I can't
wait but I don't like pear-shaped
diamonds can we get a square one yes
okay let's do it you see so I'm saying
yes let's get married and when you're in
the negotiation make sure you're showing
love just like you would with the tip
that you're trying
very easy ones in and interviewing
itself is kind of like blind dating you
should be have been told something about
one another that hope is true and then
the interviews are basically designed to
confirm it because at the end of the day
yeah what full of love at the end of all
these interviews yes yes but they don't
know how it's going to go and if you
make them feel cranky about it or if you
put them at risk by acting freaky all
they're done because what probably a lot
of job seekers don't understand this win
and when a manager makes you an offer
he's betting on you and everybody knows
it so then if you decide not to take
that offer its exist you turned him down
to the prom and everybody knows he asked
you and at the end of the day he's he or
she doesn't want to be in the situation
where they have to start all over they
put it out there and maybe offer
everyone knows their boss knows he
rejected boy horrible set of
circumstances so they want to close it's
not good not good for your political
career if that happens happens too
frequently to too many people hey Peggy
we're starting time with one another are
there any other points that you want to
make so that maybe another time well I
feel like I feel like we've offered them
a lot of information that for many of
these people can be you know pretty
life-changing if you can use these skill
sets you've got to expect something
positive is going to happen you've got
to make that other person feel the love
and then asked for and think of it kind
of like I did about the Rubik's Cube
just kind of turn it over and look is
there something that I don't know about
because there could be value in there
that you don't that you just didn't
readily understand sorry price
hey how can folks find out about you and
your farm they can look at career
confidential dot-com that's our website
career confidential calm and like I said
we have 18,000 clients in over 90
countries who use our tips and tools to
get the job that they want the other
thing is I want to let you guys know we
have a product and I sent you the link
so that you could share with them that
is a salary negotiations product and it
involves an e book written by Jack
Chapman who's one of the best salary
negotiators in the world okay so they
6th edition of an e-book it also has an
hour webinar between Jack and I going
over these kinds of things that we just
went over with you and it has an
additional hour and a half of Jack's
audio going over some other salary and
compensation conversations so that you
can kind of steep yourself in this
vernacular and it's going to help you do
better when you get to that negotiation
table so you guys can you can give them
that link and again they can also look
for go to career confidential com they
can also call us on our phone number 806
912 562 Peggy's thank you I really
appreciate for making time well I
appreciate ya know it's a great topic
folks wasn't Peggy terrific I think she
was I'm sure you do too she's giving you
tons of great advice and I want to
encourage you visit itunes give job
search radio a great review because it's
going to help other people discover this
interview with others that i've done and
provide them with great information to
help them with their job search to also
want to mention if we're not already
connected on LinkedIn connect with me
there my page there is linkedin.com/in/TheBigGameHunter I
look forward to connecting with you
there I look forward to coming back next
time with another great guest to help
you with your search
for more job search advice visit Jeff's
website, TheBigGameHunter.us
That's TheBigGameHunter.us
[Music]

ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER

Jeff Altman, The Big Game HunterJeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with over 2400 episodes.

Are you interested in 1:1 coaching, interview coaching, advice about networking more effectively, how to negotiate your offer or leadership coaching? People hire me to provide No BS career advice whether that is about a job search, hiring better, leadership, management or support with a workplace issue. Schedule a discovery call at my website, www.TheBigGameHunter.us 

My courses are available on my websitewww.TheBigGameHunter.us/courses The courses include ones about Informational InterviewsInterviewing, final interview preparation, salary negotiation mistakes to avoidthe top 10 questions to prepare for on any job interview, and starting a new job.

I do a livestream on LinkedIn, YouTube (on the JobSearchTV.com account) and on Facebook (on the Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter page) Tuesdays and Fridays at 1 PM Eastern. You can send your questions about job search, hiring better, management, leadership or to get advice about a workplace issue to me via messaging on LinkedIn or in chat during the approximately 30 minute show.No BS Job Search Advice Radio

Classes On Skillshare https://thebiggamehunter.us/Skillshare 

Freelancing or hiring a freelancer: fiverr.com https://thebiggamehunter.us/fiverr. or Freelancer: https://thebiggamehunter.us/freelance

To set up your freelance business correctly: incorporate https://thebiggamehunter.us/incorporate

Connect with me on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/thebiggamehunter 

Watch my videos on YouTube at JobSearchTV.com, the Job Search TV app for fireTV or a firestick or Bingenetworks.tv for Apple TV, and 90+ smart tv’s.

Thinking of making a career change and need some ideas that fit you. CareerFitter offers a free test and if you want more you can upgrade for the paid version.https://thebiggamehunter.us/Career

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