EP 1994 One thing I know from all my years of doing executive search, most job hunters don’t know how to interview effectively. In this podcast,  Frank Blake (myjobology.com) and I speak about a number of things that people can do better on their interviews so that you don’t go home sad and disappointed.

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So my guest today is Frank Blake, who's an interview coach and instructor with job ology, which you can find By the way, at my job ology dot com. Frank has worked in corporate America for years. And I like to make sure that you hear a different voice about different things from time to time. If you're we're gonna be talking about interviewing, because I know I have strong opinions about it. Frank, and I have probably promised that we're going to go into a grudge match at some point in this show. Just kidding, just kidding. Frank, welcome, thanks for making time to be available for everyone today.

Frank
Hey, thanks, Jeff. Thanks for having me on the show, I begin by saying I'm a longtime fan of your show. I know, maybe now or soon, you're coming up on your 10 year anniversary and 2000 episodes. So congratulations on that.

Jeff
Thank you. Thank you, I take my head off to me as well.

Frank
It's really impressive. And again, I've been a big fan of the show. As you mentioned, I've been in corporate America for over 16 years. And it was through that time in corporate America and just thousands, and thousands of interviews and being either interviewing folks to join my team or me interviewing for different jobs. You know, I observed a couple of things along the way. Those things that I observed along the way really built the foundation of this interview prep class that I've been teaching now for the better part of a decade. And Jeff, I've been teaching it at big companies, small companies, start-ups, schools, universities, non-profits, you name it. I've been teaching this class for 10 years. It's a subject that I'm incredibly passionate about. I think that I've been fortunate enough to be able to help a lot of folks in their job search process, getting them ready for an interview. And it's really not until recently that I was convinced to go into a studio, record the class and make it available online for anybody to access. And so that's how I got to job ology. And I'm excited to be here and tell you and your listeners all about.

Jeff
So I remember when we were talking originally, you started thinking about doing this as you were talking to people who were interviewing for roles internally. And they would just think of the choice. And now they walk into interviews, perfectly qualified, couldn't deliver the goods, walked out feeling frustrated. And my recollection is, you've adapted this for people who are actually looking for jobs, not just simply internally, but externally as well. Do I have that right?

Frank
No, absolutely. So I've developed a framework that I think and know can assist any different type of job seeker, whether it's that you're looking for an internal promotion, whether you're a new graduate, looking for your first job, or anything in between re-entering the workforce. The framework that I lay out in this class really just helps people think about the interview process a little bit differently. It helps them organize their thoughts to present the best foot forward in the interview questions. And then it gives you some tips and tricks and drills so that you can go into the interview, really confident to put your best foot forward.

Jeff
Excellent. So how does the framework start? Notice here's this framework is a term. I use the framework as a term.

Frank
Well, I knew I mean, Jeff, Look, I know we're much aligned. And if it's a slug match, A, I know you're going to win, and B, I think we'll have more things that we agree on than disagree on. But I think, you know, if I start all the way at the beginning, here's what I would say. And the first thing is that it's my opinion that the interview process is a flawed process. It's not a perfect market. If it were a perfect market and a perfect process, then every time the best and most qualified candidate would get the role. And you would never end up in a scenario where the best candidates don't get the role or the worst candidates do get the role. But unfortunately, what I've observed over the years in a variety of different organizations is that how well you can actually do the job doesn't always correlate to interview success, and therefore getting the offer and opportunity. And so for example, part of where this class came from is I would have folks that worked for me on my team that I'd be developing to take the next step in their career; and I would know, with 100% certainty, they'd be excellent candidates for promotion and could do the next job really, really well. But then when they got to the interview table, during that one crucial hour, they fell on their face, they tripped over their feet, or something didn't go well, they didn't present the information correctly, or appropriately, and they weren't afforded the opportunity.

And then Jeff, on the flip side of that, I would have openings on my team. People would come and interview with me, they would sound great, it would be a great sounding interview, so I'd give them a chance, and then I'd be disappointed to learn that, you know, sometimes sounding great in an interview doesn't always mean that you're going to be great in the job. And so I kind of began this coaching of interview skill preparation journey, by realizing that it's, it's a little bit of a flawed process, and that because of that, for lack of a better term, you can gain the system and learn some tips and tricks on how to get ready for the interview so that you can put your best foot forward.

Jeff
Whoo, we're going to start talking about secrets, claiming the system.

Frank
Yeah, so look, I don't know how much these are real secrets, versus just different ways to think about things. But you know, look at the class that I've put online, at my job ology dot Com, it's about an hour long, there are four different classes that you can go through. And the first one is a good 25 minutes of just general thoughts to get you in the right frame of mind. And one thing that I always like to tell folks and look, whether this is a secret or not, you know, it's my opinion that as the interviewer, if I have an open job on my team, what do I really have? Okay, I don't have an open job, I don't have the opportunity to give you more money, I don't have all you know, the chances to make your dreams come true. What I really have is a problem. So I have a problem. If I have an open spot on my team, that could be a business that doesn't have a leader, it could be a team that's missing their manager, it could be a role that's not getting performed; until I get someone in that spot, I really have a big problem and an issue. And as the interviewee, if you approach the situation as you are there to solve my problem, well, Jeff, all of a sudden, that switches the power dynamic. And that puts the interviewee in the position of power, saying, Look, I'm going to do the best I can to organize my thoughts so that I can show to this person that I really am the best fit to solve their problem. And it's little things like that. I mean, look, we get into more meat of the subject in the subsequent lectures, but it's little things like that, that I think give candidates a real advantage.

Jeff
Agreed. Because folks, you know, you look at job descriptions, and I wine a bunch of required skills, what they're going to have you doing, it's got some wonderful manure about what a great and wonderful firm they are. Just remember someone quit from this great and wonderful firm to open up that vacancy. It's not all that often, it's about we've created 4000 positions just like you, and we're trying to hire someone's left the job. So there are obviously flaws there just like there are with you and your abilities for this role. You're never going to be the perfect fit for these jobs; really good enough. And it's a question of how close you are. So understanding that there's a problem that needs resolution changes the power dynamic from we have all the information to your down below. We want to bring this up to a level where you're an equal level, and you're there as the consultant and effect walking in to try and solve the problem.

Frank
No, that's really well said, Jeff. And I think you know, the other way I look at it is Look, I can't help you become qualified for the job. And I can't substitute 15 years of career experience that will help you be successful. But what I can do in one hour is show you some efficient ways to organize your thoughts so that when you answer the interview questions, some of which we know are going to be asked, you can be really well prepared ahead of time. And one of the philosophies that I talked about in the class is confidence through preparation, and just by going through the process, spending an hour getting ready. I'll tell you I've seen more candidates and students take this class that comes out of it so incredibly confident. Now have I changed their work experience? Not at all, have I changed the history that they have in their career field? Not one bit. But what I have been able to do is through forming their thoughts and answers to the questions; I've given them a ton of additional confidence in themselves. And I'll tell you Just a personal story from my background; this became obvious to me at one point a long, long time ago. I had my first big promotional interview, and I flew into a city and I go check into the hotel straight from the airport. And as I'm checking into the hotel, who do I see there in the lobby, but a guy that I know, and he and I have worked together...

Jeff
And you are frozen, unfortunately.

Frank
For a long time, and I said, Oh, what are you doing? Oh,

Jeff
Oh, that's okay. I just made a note, I made a note for where this is, I'm going to do an edit. And thus, as long as we don't have lots of issues.

Frank
Normally, I'm pretty stable here.

Jeff
So I think this isn't an issue today, by the way. So.

Frank
So we check into the hotel, you can imagine he and I are now both interviewing for the same job. It's fairly obvious, but because we're friends, and we're collegiate, I say to the gentleman, "Hey, why don't we meet in the lobby, grab a beer and we'll go over some of our prep questions? So I check-in and go to the lobby, and I pull out this big, thick binder of all of the preparation work that I've been doing, all the practice questions that I've been going through. And immediately the guy looks at me and he goes, "Well, Who told you to do all this"? And I said, "Look, man, nobody told me to do this. But when my career is on the line, and my family is counting on me to put food on the table, I'm not going to take it by chance. And I'm not going to shoot by the hip shoot from the hip. And I'm going to really put in the time to prepare for it". And immediately his confidence level sank to the basement, and I became incredibly confident that I had been working harder than anybody else. And as a result, it's no surprise who got the job. And so one of the things I really believe in is confidence through preparation.

Jeff
There's an old saying, I'm going to edit one of the peas in this phrase, "Proper preparation prevents poor performance".

Frank
Yeah. No, I'm very familiar with it. And I'll tell you one thing and teaching this class again, I've taught it at schools, universities, big companies, small company; one thing I've learned is that typically speaking, everybody wants to win. There are very few people out there that will admit to you, "Yeah, I'm okay. Losing, I just want to lose". I mean, everybody wants to win. But not everybody's willing to prepare to win. And the difference is the folks that are willing to put in the preparation; those are the ones that ultimately win the game.

Jeff
So often, we look at professional athletes, we look at entertainers, and we forget the countless hours they spend in practice before they get in the game. And entertainers have coaches and rehearse. And they spend thousands and thousands of hours rehearsing lines or practicing song after song, training their voice for the performance and athletes, you know, whether it's LeBron James of this era, or Michael Jordan and a previous one, just all the moves that they practice and all the shots that they've taken off hours, and all the thought that goes into their professional, and they act like professionals, they don't, they don't do it halfway. And folks, if you go into interviews and you went to an aperture, and you deserve to have your lunch eaten by someone.

Frank
No, it's a great analogy. Jeff, I'll tell you it's another way to think about this class on my job ology dot com is, it's the practice gym for the interview, right? So I'm going to give you some practice questions, there's a free workbook that you can download and use to help organize your thoughts. And it really is that sort of practice gym mentality before you have the big game coming up. And, and look, it's been really successful, especially, you know, I should mention, because of COVID 19, this year, that was really the catalyst for recording the class. And so I used to teach this live and in person, when travel stopped, I wasn't able to do that anymore. But also, we had a ton of new newly jobless folks, a lot of layoffs, a lot of furloughs, and a lot of people in the COVID environment looking for work. And so my ability to travel went down, the number of people who needed the course went way up. And then the other thing is, you know, the interviews that are out there are sometimes fewer and farther between. And so if you do get the call to get your big interview, it's worth it to make the investment to make sure that it pays off by spending a little bit of time in the practice gym.

Jeff
You don't get a second shot, folks. It's one shot to win it. And then you have to repeat it a couple of times with other people. So just remember when you have that chance, whether it's throwing pandemics, the typical run of the mill recessions, or good times, you're always competing. There's someone there who wants that opportunity too, and how do you stand out.

So we've got two things covered so far, confidence through preparation, I'm sorry. Identifying a hiring manager has a problem, and that there's confidence from preparation. What's next?

Frank
Yeah, so in the class, the next lecture, we go really deep into question number one, and I don't want to spoil too much of it. But I know you're well versed in the industry, most of your listeners probably already know what question number one is. But the way that I framed it up is this, what if you knew on the one day when it matters the most? When your career was on the line? That the very first question you get? A, you already know what it's going to be, so you can prepare your answer ahead of time; And B, you happen to be the world's foremost expert on that subject. There is no easier softball question for me to give to you for you to hit a Grand Slam home run out of the park than question number one. Unfortunately, not everybody recognizes that; and the answers are lackluster. And so in the class, I'll just give you a little bit of a preview, we talked about the two different kinds of answers to question number one. And when I say question one, what I'm referring to is some version of who the heck are you? Now it can be something formal, tell me the aspects of your education background experience relevant to the position, or it can be more conversational like, Hey, nice to meet you. Let's get to know each other.

But somehow the essence of question number one is almost always, "Who the heck are you"? And the two versions of the answer that we get, the first is what I call the Forrest Gump. And everybody out there has probably seen the movie; it's about a sort of bumbling fellow who's wandering his way through life. And it's not really linear, it doesn't really make a ton of sense, but it's just a series of mishaps and adventures and winds. And it's this winding path through life that Life is like a box of chocolates. And first I was in Alabama, and I had braces on my legs, then I met Jenny, then I had to go to Vietnam, then I played ping pong, and I caught shrimp and you're just sort of all over the place, and you have no idea what's coming next, nor do you really understand why or how to make sense of it. That's a lot of what I get for the answer to question number one. When I interview people is sort of this rambling, nonlinear Forrest Gump type journey throughout their life. And that's the first kind of answer.

The other type of answer, or the other way that you can answer question number one is what I call the logical march to victory. Or if we stay with our sports analogy here, it's your highlight reel. I don't need to see the whole game, I don't need to know where you fumbled, or where you ran out of time, or how to penalty. Don't give me every single play of the game, just stringing together your highlights and show me that you're on this logical march to victory, where the only next logical step is we finished whatever this interview process is here that we're doing, and you're awarded the position that you're interviewing for.

Jeff
Interesting choice of terms and I'd like it. How long should an answer be?

Frank
That is a great question. And so you know, I think that interviewing again, if we stick with our sports thing, there is a little bit of clock management. And so you need to know how long the interview is? How many questions are we anticipating? And thinking, how long should the question be? Here's what I will tell you, and this is what I tell the students in the class. In the interview process, it is very natural to be nervous. The nerves mean that you care, the nerves mean that you're excited and you care about this, but usually, in life, there are two types of people and how they respond to nervousness. Type number one, they completely clam up and it's hard to get words out of them. It's hard to get them to talk and you got to pull every answer out of them; because when they get nervous, they just completely clam up. Type number two is the opposite, and they just ramble, ramble, ramble, ramble and you get a lot of what I call mouth noise. And so I think my first advice to all the students is look, take a little bit of a reflection and think to yourself, who are you when you get nervous? Are you more likely to clam up? So you need to really think through how to prevent or provide the information that you need to? Or are you more likely to ramble and so you have to be reining yourself in a little bit? And so that's the first thing I would say, which of those types of people are you?

And then the other one I i and this is just personal Frank's opinion, and this is where the slugfest can begin, Jeff, but I say, "I say look, "If you're good to go long on one answer, let it be the one that you know is coming. And let it be the one where you know you're the expert"; because you can use a little bit of human psychology to your advantage. There's what people call the halo effect or the recency bias? And if your question to answer number one is so wired tight and awesome, you've made a great first impression right out of the gate, well, maybe they give you the benefit of the doubt on the rest of the questions of the interview. And so my advice to everybody is, know how you react under stress, do you clam up? Or do you ramble? And then if you're going to go along on one question, let it be question number one, not too long, but let it be a little bit longer than your others; because if you really hit it out of the park, it could give you a halo effect or recency bias for the rest of the question.

Jeff
I tell people, generally a minute to a minute, 15 as a timeline. You may have a different attitude because they're basically telling their life story, and the answer. To me, a minute 15 is about the limit of attention span that we have these things. So it doesn't mean that just you do a Joe Biden and go up it's a minute 50% of my time. Now, what it is; is that you're in there giving them value? And my version of the answer is, you know, 20 to 25 seconds of overview for what your background is that, and then a bridge phrase that that says, but what's probably most relevant to my background for this role is my experience with and then the rest of your time connects the dots for them about how your background fits this. And people tell me that when they hear that bridge phrase, they notice managers give them the Scooby-Doo moment, of their ears perking up. And they start really listening intently to the next thing because what you're doing is telling them what you've done that relates to the job, and solves the problem that I have.

Frank
No, absolutely. And I think the other thing that goes with that is I always like to encourage the students and candidates, "Look, it's one thing to say what you've done. But it's another thing to say what skills, or knowledge, and abilities you picked up along the way", right? And someone wants to describe the career to me as, a journey of solving more complex problems, or a journey of picking up skillsets along the way. And so don't just tell me that you were a janitor. Tell me what you learned while you were the janitor. Tell me what you took from that experience that to your point is relevant to this role. And I would just mention to the audience; when I teach these classes live, I tell every single student, "You know what the question is going to be. So write down your answer, write it down, practice it, time it, see how it sounds, see how it feels". Inevitably out of a class of 100, I'll have 10 people actually do that, because it's hard work. It takes time. But those are the 10 people that are going to differentiate themselves. And on the website, there's a free workbook that you can download. It's totally free. And it just gives you a little bit of a framework to help you organize those thoughts for your answer to question number one.

Jeff
And folks these days, with so much being done on camera. One of the fun things about writing it down in advance is you can position it on your monitor. Obviously, you can't do it on your phone, but you can do it with a monitor or an iPod, and have it there to read off of as long as it doesn't look like you're reading. So you just position it to the left or the right of the camera, and you just start going with your answer. It's a breeze at that point. Now you have to rehearse how you deliver the lines, and cannot make it seem like, "Oh, my name is Frank Blake, I am a robot reading on the screen". You have to make it seem interesting and lively, just like an actor does. Because remember, you are a performer.

Frank
You mentioned being on camera, I'll say in the class, also, we have a lot of tips and tricks for phone interviews. So what kind of different things can you do if you know you're interviewing over telephone? What kind of different things should you consider if it's a virtual interview over zoom or some camera-based web system? So there are certain things to consider for that. I also go into a subject of which I'm very, very passionate about which is body language. And so I've studied a lot of body language over the years, I really do believe that it's a hidden language, especially in the interview process. And so I talk about ways that you can use that hidden language to your advantage, and things that you should be aware of that could potentially negatively impact your chances. So the course is filled with all sorts of weird little titbits like that along the way. And I think we've had a lot of success over the years, especially just in the last six months we get my favorite emails to get are people that take the class and say, "Hey, Frank, thanks for that. I landed my dream job and I owe it all to you".

Jeff
Give me an example of bad body language that you've seen way too often?

Frank
Sure. So I mean, I think the classic is the folded arms, right? So folded arms are the universal sign that I'm closed off, I'm closed-minded, I'm not listening. And the problem is folded arms are sometimes very comforting. If you're nervous, if you're uncomfortable, you fold your arms because it's kind of a sort of protecting yourself thing. But it's the universal body language sign for I am not listening to you, and immediately sets a tone of, you know, I'm closed off to what's happening here, and I'm not comfortable, and it sends a lot of negative subliminal messages to the interviewer. On the flip side, and this is something you'll see in politics, public speaking, you name it, the universal sign of comfort, confidence, and dominance, is what's called steepling. And so when people are steepling, it's this is my power position. It's my base of power, whether it's the full steeple with all my fingers together like this, or a single steeple with just my two index fingers together. If I'm speaking to you from this position, it generally means I'm speaking about something I'm very confident about. And now I know that because I studied from one of the greatest body language experts in the world, Jan Hargrave.

And Jan's written hundreds of books on body language for every different situation, interviewing, the jury selection, dating, you name it, she's written a body language book on it. And she taught me about steepling. And now that I know that if someone is steepling, unconsciously, I feel like, okay, they're really confident in whatever they're speaking about right now. And I know that, and it gives me a little bit of a hidden advantage.

Jeff
And when to point out the mistake example of arms folded. I'm going to speak to women here, I know, sometimes you get cold, the air conditioning is too high, and you are trying to warm yourself hotter. So the typical answer is the male-oriented answer, which is to show me, prove it to me. Oh, yeah, I think one of those lines, but sometimes it's just as obvious as I'm cold.

Frank
And there's no doubt that that's what's causing a candidate to cross their arms, they might just be cold, and that's totally understandable. The challenges in the interviewer's mind, it could be sending the wrong message unintentionally. And it's just good to know those things.

Jeff
Interviewers have a pretty simple playbook. And once you understand the playbook, it doesn't have to be right or wrong. It's the playbook. And they look for things like that. Huh, huh. And it sends a message on intentional. So we're at a point now, where we're talking about body language going a little bit deeper, we've answered, tell me about yourself, or walk you through your background? Or tell me your life story in 20 words or less? Some versions of those questions. What happens next and the way you teach?

Frank
Yeah, so then I go through what I call questions two through eight. And that's just assuming that you get eight questions. Not every interview is that long, but I talk about an exercise that you can do. That is something I've been teaching folks for a decade, plus how to organize your thoughts to be ready to answer those questions really, really well. Regardless of what the subject is, the exercise that I show people in the class just helps you be ready, no matter what comes at you, and then I tell you about a couple of different types of questions that you'll get, and how you would answer each different type differently. And, that's really the meat of the middle of the class, right? It's what exercises can you do to be ready, regardless of the question that comes? And then what types of questions may come your way, and how would you answer them differently?

Jeff
And in the formatting, are you teaching like the star acronym or, or something else as part of helping people prepare?

Frank
Yeah, so the answer is yes. And it depends, right? And so I'll just give you a quick example. I don't want to ruin the whole, the whole magic of the class.

Jeff
29:08 [Inaudible] in the movie? You got to watch the movie in entirety.

Frank
You still want to go see the movie, I will mention Jeff, that for your listeners. On the website, we created a special coupon code for a 50% off discount. If they want to take the class, the coupon code, you enter it in at checkout, and it's very simple, all lowercase, no space, no BS, no BS. So put in, No BS at the checkout and get 50% off the class. And part of what you'll learn in it is look this the star situation task action result or situation action result, that works really well for experiential questions. Tell me about a time. Jeff, tell me about a time when you had to do X perfect time for the situation action result? The challenge is if I asked you a different type of question like "Jeff, what would you do if"?
What would you do if A-B and C? Well, if I asked you that question, and you give me something you've already done, well, then you violated rule number one, which is answered the question; because you're sort of going in a different direction. And so we talked about the situation, action, results when to use it, but also when not to use them.

Jeff
Excellent. And how do you have people wrap up the interview?

Frank
Yep. So then we talk about the number one question that I get asked when I teach this class is Frank, "What is a good question to ask at the end of the interview"? And I have my personal opinions on it. Again, this is just Frank, one on one after doing thousands of interviews, but I end the fourth lecture of the class with how to tie it together. And also what questions I think are appropriate to ask at the end of the interview, and which ones I would avoid? And I think that I know, I've listened to a lot of your shows in the past. I know you, you have opinions on this also, but I think, look you mentioned that the interviewer has a playbook. Okay? At the end of the interview, as the interviewer, I have asked you my series of questions, I've made my notes, and we're pretty much wrapping it up. There are some things that we should talk about; because it's important, but there are a lot of things that really at this point are not important. And I go through all of those in the class.

Jeff
Excellent. Could you give one example of either a do or don't ask for the end?

Frank
No, absolutely. So I think for me, one of the most important things is that it's appropriate for the candidate to understand the timeline and the process. So I think it's very reasonable for a candidate to say, "Yes, thank you for the time, I do have one question. What kind of timeline are you looking at? Are you looking to make a decision soon? Are you the hiring decider, etc"? And that's a very good thing because it helps you understand your timeline as the candidate as you're balancing multiple interviews, so totally reasonable, totally makes sense.

I will say also, there are some formats, especially on the west coast, now you're talking silicon valley.com. start-ups, there are a lot of formats where the candidate or the interviewer wants to know what kind of questions you're going to ask, they want to hear your questioning mind-set. And in that regard, I think it's great to go back to, you know, company values, "Hey, what's makes this company special? What really makes the people here tick, what gets folks fired up here"? Right? Talking about the values, the mission, and then maybe a little bit about the problem, so we talked about solving the problem. Okay, so what you know, what is it that this role really needs to deliver for you? What's the problem that I'd be solving for you? Those are good questions, especially in a West Coast type format. The ones that drive me crazy, are ones where the candidate is trying to prove how smart they are, by asking what they think are smart questions at the end of an already long interview. So I may have made up my decision. Candidly, I've already decided if I think you're smart or not smart based on the answers to the questions. And then I say, "Okay, look, thanks. For the time, this has been really great. Anything I can answer for you"? And they say, "Oh, yes, Frank, as a matter of fact, you know, I've been looking at recent Chinese import tariffs. And when I think about multilateral trade negotiations, when you consider, you know, Pacific stability, rationales, etc. What do you think about tea in China"? And I say, "Look, okay, what is that about? Like, what are you you're just trying to prove that you're very smart, and I'm not really interested in that at this point", so that's an example.

Jeff
Thank you. And I must say, folks, Frank is delightful, and the material he teaches is really very good. We differ about certain things. My content is going to be on his site shortly. But he's got a model that also works very well. So how can people find out more about you the course, what have you? I know, you mentioned the link. And by the way, it's not an affiliate link, folks. I'm not making any money on this. He's doing this, giving your 50% off on the course.

Frank
Yeah, yeah. So they can check out the website, it's my job ology dot com. You can learn more about me, you can get the workbook for free, and you can take the first lecture. If you just want to test drive it or you can get the whole class, and again, your coupon code works for any of that. But the other thing I would mention, what you'll learn in my bio there is that prior to my 16 years in corporate America, I was in the US Army, and not a lot of interviewing, necessarily in the US Army and military service as we would think about it in the professional world. But what I am very passionate about really the main reason why I decided to put the class on the web like this is to help veterans that are transitioning into the workforce. And so if you're out there; if you served our country If you're a veteran, you can email us at my job ology@gmail.com and just include in the subject or in the body of the email the word 'veteran'. And we will respond to you with a coupon code that will give you the class for free; because I personally have a lot of experience with my friends and peers transitioning from the military world to the civilian world. I know how difficult it can be. And anything I can do to help with that is really why we went about this whole journey. And so if you're a veteran out there, you can email us we'll get your free code for the class. If you're another non-profit, and you'd like to partner together, whether it's in sort of prison, ministries or workplace reform, all sorts of non-profits out there, send us an email, we'd love to partner with you.

Jeff
Frank, thank you. And, folks, we'll be back soon with more on Jeff often the big game hunter. I've got a lot of my website, the big game hunter.us. Go to the blog and go exploring the thousands of posts there with the information that will help you on your journey.

In addition, if you're interested in one on one coaching, have a quick question for me, want to order some of my courses; we're adding more courses to the site momentarily. At the site, you can purchase the courses, they are terrific. The last thing I'm going to mention is really very simple. Folks need help, whether it's from Frank or for me or someone else to learn through trial and error. All that happen is you miss out on opportunities that are extremely costly for you, and then you have to look in the mirror and say to yourself, "Why didn't I just spend a few dollars and not make a mistake"? So, again, whether it's Frank or me, or someone else, get the help that you need, so that you don't blow it. I'm Jeff Altman, hope you have a terrific day and most importantly, be great. Take care.

ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER

Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter

Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, all as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with more than 1900 episodes, and is a member of The Forbes Coaches Council.

Are you interested in 1:1 coaching, interview coaching, advice about networking more effectively, how to negotiate your offer or leadership coaching? Schedule a free Discovery call.

If you have a quick question for me, you can get it answered with a 3-5 minute video at https://www.wisio.com/TheBigGameHunter. Want to do it live?

If you want to learn how to interview like a pro, order “The Ultimate Job Interview Framework” from udemy.com Jeff NoBSJobSearchAdvice.comhttp://www.TheBigGameHunter.us/interviews  The Kindle and print versions are available on Amazon.

Connect with me on LinkedIn. Like me on Facebook.

Join and attend my classes on Skillshare. Become a premium member and get 2 months free.

Watch my videos on YouTube at JobSearchTV.com, the Job SearchTV app for FireTV, Roku or a firestick or BingeNetworks.tv for AppleTV and 90 smart tv platforms.

You can order a copy of “Diagnosing Your Job Search Problems” for Kindle on Amazon and receive free Kindle versions of “No BS Resume Advice” and “Interview Preparation.” If you are starting your search, order, “Get Ready for the Job Jungle.”

Don’t forget to give the show 5 stars and a good review in iTunes. It helps other people discover the show like you did.

Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/nobsjobsearchadviceradio/support

 

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