Sabotaging Yourself During a Presentation or Job Interview
By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter]
EP 1723 Whether you are presenting a speech to a group or being interviewed for a job, what you wear makes a difference. It and your manner can put you over the top, or distract the listener to distraction.
This is No BS Job Search Advice Radio, episode 1723. I thought I’d be goofy there. I’m Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter and welcome.
This shows a little bit different. I do periodic interviews with people just because I think they compliment the work that I do and they have something to give differently than I might offer because they’re better at it than I am. And today, I interview a woman named Barry Barton from standanddeliverashfield.com about how people sabotage themselves during an interview or a presentation in a couple of different ways.
Hope you find this helpful. Hope you enjoy it. And let’s get going, okay? And I have a guest today, Barry Barton, who’s the head of a firm called standanddeliverashfield.com at standanddeliverashfield.com. And what she helps people do is improve their presentation skills, which I think is very important for interviewing.
As her website says, make an impact, convey confidence, and command the world. Barry, thanks for making time. It’s great to see you.
Hi, Jeff. Nice to be here. Thank you.
So, you worked in theater, you worked in dance. How did that shape your view of this? So, I actually come from a dancer background. That is my training for many, many years.
But I had an actor friend and he said that a director that he worked with had them put on during rehearsal, just learning their lines and learning about their character, had them put on two distinct costume items. One was the shoes of the character and one was the hat of the character. Well, looky there.
And the putting on, I mean, there’s so many metaphors with that, but putting on these two costume items shifted them into the persona of that character. And I think all of us have experienced something like that when we put on a certain set of clothing, a certain style of clothing, we feel a certain way. We feel empowered or we feel sloppy or relaxed or like I got my play dress on.
It gives us a sense of who we are and what we’re getting ready to do. You betcha it does. And when I think about an interview, when I think about a presentation, I expect that much the same thing happens for people as well.
That once they step into what I nicknamed their battle regalia, they kind of shapeshift into what that person is going to be like as they put on their performance. Is that what you say? Yes, so that’s from the interviewee person or the presenter. So there’s an experience that I’m having when I dress in a certain way, when I put that little special extra touch on my sleeves or my collar or whatever it is, I experience a boost in my confidence or a sense of who I am getting ready to stand up in front of a group of people.
And on the other side, the audience gets a sense of something as well because they’re not just listening to you. There’s, again, if I go back to theater, there is a whole visual, emotional, auditory experience happening simultaneously. And when actors and directors and anybody that’s putting on a production, you’re looking at sound, you’re looking at lights, you’re looking at costuming, you’re looking at every little detail about how to create an experience for your audience.
So you can really dive deep into this particular subject matter. But of course, in our busy lives, we want to just kind of keep it simple and doable. You betcha.
And you may not know this, but I always prepare people as part of my coaching. And I talk about the theater of interviewing, because there is a performance that a person puts on that allows them to be the best version of themselves for the audience. Yeah.
And there’s, you know, and I talk about this in my learning labs, is that there’s this interesting paradox that we’re always sort of existing in is that we want to go in prepared and think about these elements. But we also just want to go in and kind of just let go into the flow of the moment so that we can just be relaxed to who we are. So there’s both.
There’s that ability to let go and relax and just be you. But there’s also that being intentional about the experience that you want your audience to have. And so that requires forethought and some planning ahead.
You betcha. And again, going back to interviewing, it’s obvious when someone’s doing public speaking, but in interviewing for a lot of folks, they don’t really think that way. They may practice the answers to the questions.
Maybe. Right. Maybe.
Most of the time, they walk in and wing it as though this is an improv class. And it’s unfortunate. But again, going back to costuming, what one wears, how one presents and how one rehearses, goes a long way toward how well the performance is received.
Yes. And also other things as well. So, for example, if you walk in, you know, and I haven’t been in an interview in decades, but if you walk into an interview, let’s just say with a water bottle, that’s a squeezy bottle and you have to kind of slip on it like a baby’s bottle.
Or even have that as a presenter on stage. That’s going to give a very different impression than, again, going to the presenter on stage. If you have kind of a clear, classy glass of water, easy to pick up, easy to put down.
Those kinds of props. Let’s just say your interviewee goes by McDonald’s and gets a cup of coffee and he’s got it in his hand in the waiting room. Well, you know, I don’t know.
I don’t know. And that’s also the thing is that we can’t assume necessarily that something is going to make a particular impression. We don’t know.
And so it’s important to just make sure that you’re not giving any mixed messages about who you are and what you’re capable of. You bet. And I know there are ways that people can distract an audience.
Could you give one or two examples of things that are distracting, whether someone’s a presenter or being interviewed? Well, I just worked with this one woman and she had this constant shifting of her hair. Out of the way. And it was, you know, this nervous habit.
And as soon as she became aware of it, she was able to slow that down. So those sort of little nonverbal gestures. Another woman I worked with was interviewing herself and had it.
It was so subtle, but she kind of kept lifting her shoulders up. And it was kind of like she was going, I don’t know. My name is, I don’t know.
It was not that noticeable. But again, so much of our nonverbal gesturing or body language is subconsciously received. I know there was someone I coached last week who, when answering a question from me as part of a mock interview, he was going like this as he was answering the question.
And I did a time out with him to say, are you aware that what you’re doing is answering the question and telling me no? Yes. Folks, we do this all the time. And it’s very useful to be on camera to notice these things.
So, encouragement. If you work with someone, have a recording done, as I do for the people that I coach. How about with the costume? Are there ways that people sabotage themselves with how they dress for a presentation or dress for an interview? Yeah, absolutely.
I had an experience recently where I did a presentation. It was about 150 people in the audience. And it was a personal story.
It was at an organization worldwide called Bachaca Cha. And I wore a scarf around my neck. It was a very bulky scarf.
And it was, I looked at the video and it was not a good choice on my part to wear that. I was told I should wear it so I could hide the earpiece. But I would have much preferred to have the earpiece shown and have the opening of my throat in my neck available for my audience.
And for guys, we don’t have to deal with that. We have the tie, the distracting tie. Remember the days of the trap ties or the flounder ties, guys? God, those were awful, but people wore them as though that was good.
Trust me, any nonsense along those lines is awful. So, if you have a wife, husband or partner that can guide you, folks, take some input from a trusted advisor who only has your best interests at heart. So, we’ve spoken about some negatives.
What should people do instead? If you were giving some tips about positive things that folks could do, what might they be? The first question I instruct my clients to ask when they’re getting ready to do a presentation is, who is your audience? So, it’s knowing firsthand, first step is just knowing who you’re going to be in front of. And so that, again, you’re not necessarily giving up who you are, how you dress, to fit in, but that there’s an alignment, that you’re not mismatched with your audience, or you’re the person that’s interviewing you, or the business that’s interviewing you. So, I think it requires, again, it’s about forethought and pre-planning to align yourself, dress, language, on all levels, so that you can be received well and easily.
Are there suggestions for women versus men that you might have in terms of dress or little details that could be problematic? Right. So, of course, if you’re on stage, especially if you’re mic’d, and women have to sometimes wear a lot of bracelets, or jingly, dangly, noise-making jewelry, that is definitely something you want to avoid. If you are on stage with lights, the lights will pick up on your jewelry, and it will create a beautiful light show for your audience, but it will also be very distracting.
So, reduce the amount of jewelry that you have on you when you are on stage, especially with lights. I’m going to leap in on the job applicant side of this, and that could be true there as well, because you don’t know the lighting that you’re stepping into. Certain types of lighting, for example, I have a window directly in front of me, which is good for lighting at my face, but if I were wearing earrings here, an ugly look for me, I must admit, and they were dangling a little bit, it could be distracting because there’ll be a glimmer there that might take someone’s eyes off of my face.
You know, it’s so interesting because when I was a dancer, we would, before we would go on stage, it was always sort of the tag check, or dancers would always cut the tags out of their leotards, or their costume, or their tights, or whatever, because you have a tag hanging out, and women know this really well, that is what the audience’s attention seems to go to. It’s the thing that’s out of place, rather than all of the other pieces that are in place. And so, those little, again, those little tiny details of, again, if you’re going into a high executive kind of business, you know, you want to make sure there’s a balance in your shirt, and there’s not, nothing is sort of cattywampa, they want to see somebody.
Could you translate that one for me? Cattywampa. Cockeyed was the language I was brought up with. There you go.
Cattywampa, that’s a new one for me. Balance, you know, they want a balanced look. So yeah, it’s those little tiny details.
I once did a speech, and I had a flap, a pocket, that was unsnapped in the back, and it was just sticking out, and my, this was in Toastmasters, and an evaluator said that was distracting. So, great speech, great presentation, practiced it really hard, but by golly, he made it my darn flap on my pants. And I know women are more the target of that kind of stuff than men are.
Men will often give another man a pass, but where a woman’s involved, often it gets picked on. I always tell this story of many years ago, this a woman who I submitted to a client was being interviewed, great appearance, presentation, blonde, wore a gold suit at a time that that would have been stylish. And the feedback talked about, quote, unquote, the light bulb.
Yeah. And that kind of harsh nonsense shows up. And in one respect, it’s better that she not have gotten the job to have worked at a place that had that kind of attitude toward her.
On the other hand, you want to have the choice. So, I always think in terms of, for women in particular, how she can wind up presenting in a way that she’s at her best and is in the position to make the choice. Are there any warnings or hesitations that you have for men and how they costume themselves? That’s a little bit more of a challenge for me.
You know, of course, check your zipper. In an article that I wrote, it said, check it twice. You know, that your belt is belted in and looped in.
Again, I’m going to say this again, it depends on your audience. And there’s, you know, some places that you can go and you can have your shirt out. There’s places that you don’t want to have your shirt out.
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And it’s, again, it’s about you doing that kind of research to know who am I going up in front of? What might they expect? How can I align with that and feel comfortable and proud of who I am walking in that door? Agree. Barry, this has been terrific. How can folks, excuse me while I turn that one off.
How can folks get a hold of you? So, I am at standanddeliverashville.com and on Facebook, as well. Facebook.com standanddeliverashville.com. Yes. Super.
Yes. Barry, thank you so much for making time today. I really appreciate it.
Yes. So, that’s today’s show. I hope you found it helpful.
And if you did, here are a few more ways to get more from me. First of all, there’s my website, which is TheBigGameHunter.us. I have more than 8,000 blog posts there that you can watch, listen to or read that will help you find your next job. In addition, if you’re interested in my coaching you, at the site, there’s a button there that says schedule.
Schedule time for a free discovery call. Schedule yourself in for coaching. Interview preparation coaching.
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Helping you be a better executive in your organization and, overall, being a better employee of your firm. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn at LinkedIn.com forward slash IN forward slash TheBigGameHunter. Mention that you watch or listen to my content.
I like knowing I’m helping folks. Once we’re connected, if you’re interested in coaching, let me know. I think it’s easier at the website but if that’s the way you want to do it, so be it.
Lastly, join my group on Facebook called Career Angles. It’s focused on helping you do better at work. Information there is shared daily and I’m attempting to build a supportive group there.
Ask to join. I’m not letting recruiters in so I want to make it a safe place for everyone. I’ll be back tomorrow with more and, in the meantime, I hope you have a great day.
Be great!
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