Career Coach Office Hours: December 16 2022 | JobSearchTV.com
By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
I answered questions about job search, hiring staff, management, career transition, as well as workplace issues. Join me at 1 PM Eastern on Tuesdays on LinkedIn or YouTube (JobSearchTV.com channel).You can also message me on Linkedin before the show and I will answer it, too.
My Manager/Boss Found Out I’m Looking!
03:55
I recently interviewed at a big company. The first round is a recruiter. The second round is a hiring manager. The third round is the hiring managers peer and the fourth round is the hiring manager’s boss. These technical rounds went well, especially for my manager’s boss. She seemed really excited about my joining and shared the timeline for coming on board and training. After that, I received an email saying I was moved to the HR director. I thought HR was going to talk about an offer but it was not. It’s just an extra round of interviews. She said she has a psychology degree. Our conversation was short like 15 minutes, earlier than the 30 minutes expected. Some conversations about training and career development goals. My question is what’s the point of this HR director interview? Is she coming just for a blessing before passing, the recruiter making an offer, or do her opinions matter for the picking of the candidates? I’ve never heard about the need to meet the HR manager during the hiring process. My impression was that. But the HR manager made them super nervous. what’s the point of this interview? Pretty simple. They can reject you. I just want to be clear about it. I don’t think they will. Because there are so many people who are involved in the process, that it’s unlikely that they would reject you. After all, . . . let me back up for a second, the HR person can turn you down. It’s just that simple. They can reject you. But they have to have a reason for it. And talking about your career development goals, and things along those lines, and about training. That’s not a reason to turn someone down. If you said something stupid, in the course of the interview, like, ‘why are you looking to change jobs?’ ‘I hate my boss. He or she is an idiot,’ that’s a reason to turn someone down. Another reason to turn someone down is asking for more money than you’ve told everyone along the way. And it’s a ridiculous amount of money. They might turn you down for that. But the probability is they won’t turn you down. And in mentioning the psychology degree, I don’t think she was trying to psych you out. I think she was trying to let you know that all she was going to try and do is have a collegial conversation with you. And that at the end of the day, it was a personality interview. Nothing more than she’s not equipped to evaluate you beyond that. So good luck. I suspect you’ll be getting an offer. I don’t know what the money is going to be, quite obviously, because I don’t know what you’re going to want to do professionally. But yes, her opinion matters in selecting people. And the fact that you’ve never heard the need to meet with HR doesn’t mean that doesn’t happen with regularity because frankly, it does.
07:42
After completing virtual onsite interviews, seven rounds in total, with Meta, the recruiter said, ‘we’ll get back to you with an update as soon as we finished interviews with other candidates and debriefed.’ Is that a bad sign? No. No, it’s not a bad sign. It’s just a statement of fact. The recruiter is basically communicating with you they have more people that they’re going to be talking with, and they’ll be back in touch once they’ve all come together and made a decision. That’s all they’re saying. They’re going to come together and make a decision. After they interview the other people. It doesn’t mean anything’s wrong. They’re just giving you an honest statement about what next steps are. And, you know, I always find that hysterical. They’re telling you exactly what it is they’re planning on doing and you’re thinking that there’s some ulterior motive to it. There isn’t. They’re going to be back in touch with you after they finish this round of interviews. What you should have said at that point is, ‘When are you scheduled to meet the last person?’ ‘Is this for a first round there a second round interview? Because you may be on you’ve finished seven. We don’t know where the other candidates are in the process. They can say, ‘Oh, we have a few people are like in the third round. So just to be clear, they’re going to be going through for additional rounds. And how long do you think that might take? And they’ll tell you what the timeline is for them making a decision, which is something that you should have asked about previously. So when all is said and done, it’s not a bad sign. It’s facts. It’s facts about when to expect to hear from them next. And like I said, you should have asked them while you were talking with HR when they expected to complete this round, the round of interviews with the other people.
Did The Recruiter Want Me to Fail?
10:20
Peter Drucker said, so much of what we call management consists in making it difficult for people to work. Do you think that’s a fair representation of management or do I have a different take on this matter? I have a different take on this matter. And I don’t know if I’m quoting Drucker completely accurately. I’ll just simply say, your job as a manager is to get stuff done, and getting stuff done, seek the compliance of the people that you’re working with to get stuff done in a timely manner that fits with the policies, procedures, and guidelines, your organization has. People have to work with one another well, and they have to communicate with you because surprises are rarely good. What I think of management is that management, good management is reducing institutional friction, so that their people can get the job done quickly and efficiently, and accomplish that which they’ve been hired to do. Too often, that’s not the case. Too often people are hired, and what the friction is isn’t communicated. And thus they join, discover it’s there and they become angry and annoyed. So is it consistent making it difficult for people to work? No, that’s not what the job of management is. Although there’s a joke, I saw it, I’m gonna botch the paraphrase of it. But it describes someone getting up in the morning, enthusiastically setting out their day, getting their mind active, excited and motivated until they walk into work. And then it becomes dreary and blue. And that’s the problem with institutional friction, is that it’s the sort of institutional behaviors that don’t work for the people ostensibly, they’re supposed to work for the institution, but they really don’t. They work for, you know, compliance, command, control, all sorts of other nonsense that basically translates into processes and procedures, rather than getting stuff done. And some of you will say, ‘well, that’s how you get stuff done is by having standardized policies and procedures. There’s enough evidence to say that that’s not necessarily true.
12:58
Is it a wrong decision to resign to focus on finding a new job? Will recruiters look at me in a different way now? Will I have a smaller chance of being hired now? I don’t know what you do for a living. He didn’t tell me about that. So I do know that when you quit, some organizations don’t like when people are out of work. They think there’s something wrong with you if you’re not currently working. Now, in recessionary times, like during the pandemic, a lot of people were out of work, and they lost a job through no fault of their own. But under normal circumstances, to quit in order to look for a new job. Now. You look for a job while you’re working and figure that part out. You do interviews in the morning, during lunch, at the end of the day, you do stuff and you continue to work. It’s immature in they’re thinking to resign in order to look for a job. Because the truth is, you’re not going to be working 24/7 to find a job, are you? So the other thing that’s problematic is that you lose some of your leverage. What do I mean by that? Comes time to make an offer. They don’t think they have to negotiate all that much. And thus, offers are often issued with, ‘We’d like to make an offer. We’re going to give your two choices–leave it and take it.’ Because from their standpoint, you’re not working. Like what are you holding out for? And some people have the financial wherewithal to do that. And along the way, you can appear casual and calm in your manner. No anxiety that gives people the impression that they can get you to take a job for too little money. So when all is said and done, the biggest thing to me is about leverage and the fact that in institutions start thinking less of you, because they have a bias against people who are not working.
15:06
Is it possible to get a job in the USA from abroad by using the services of a headhunter? Rarely. The biggest issue is around what your visa status is, what will be your legal right to work in the United States. If you expect a firm to sponsor you to do that from outside the US, it’s hard because there are a limited number of visas currently, in order to be brought in to find work. In terms of using a headhunter, you’re better off networking your way into an organization than to try to use a headhunter. Now, again, you could be a very senior person, and thus Headhunter is the right term. You may be using the term Headhunter to be interchangeable with a contingency recruiter. I don’t know. If you think a contingency recruiter is going to work to find the job for you, they don’t. What they do is work to fill a job for an institution that sets out the parameters that they need to have for the job they need to have filled. Thus, it’s unlikely that you’re going to be in a situation where they’re going to be able to help you find a job, particularly from abroad, to come to the US, unless you have a particularly unique skill that makes you marketable in the US. So I wouldn’t hold my breath about that is the truth of it. It’s hard under all circumstances. And when a company has to pay a recruiter a fee in order to bring you in, it becomes less likely that they’re going to import you from abroad than anything.
Tough Interview Questions for Managers: What Qualities Are Most Important When Managing a Team
16:57
After applying for a job, what does ‘the requisition has been canceled’ mean? It means that the position is not going to be filled. There is no open job like this. ‘The req has been canceled’ translates into ‘we are not going to hire for this position.
17:23
The recruiter advised that they are still having internal conversations. After four rounds, am I in for a rejection? They’re stalling for time is usually what that means. They may be talking to other people because they’re not sitting around in a conference room going ‘okay, what do you think about this person? What do you think about that person? What do you think about this person? Oh, we want to hire Sara. No, it doesn’t work that way. They’re not having internal discussions regularly in order to figure out whether or not they’re going to hire you or someone else. They could have said, ‘we need another day or two before making a decision.’ But they didn’t say that. They use the internal discussion conversation, which sounds innocuous. It’s kind of corporate language. Sounds like a bureaucracy. So I view it as being that they’re stalling for time. And thus the correct follow up, as I mentioned earlier to someone else is, ‘and when do you believe you’ll be done with those conversations and the firm will have made a decision?’ That’s the more important question. And that is, ‘when do you expect to have a decision for filling this job’ and I’m not aware of that being asked? So I don’t see necessarily you’re in for a rejection. But statistically, you know, always remember, you’re one of a number of people that they’re interviewing. So if they’re talking to five people, it’s a 20% chance that you’re hired just on pure numbers, right? And you may be better than quite a few of them. Maybe it’s up to 70%. But there’s still others in the loop. So they’re not prepared to make a decision yet. They’re they’re still evaluating.
19:53
Does the open to work tag on your LinkedIn profile make you look desperate? No, it doesn’t make you look desperate. It basically signals to people that you are looking for work. It’s no more desperate than if you use a dating app that you’re on the app site using the app, right? There’s a profile of you. So what, it doesn’t make you appear desperate. What it does do is signal the people who want to hire individuals who are actively looking for work, that you’re open to something. And that’s all it means. You’re open to something else. Period.
20:36
I’m getting coffee at Starbucks with the VP I already met on Zoom for four interviews and we’re going to discuss the position further. Do I have to wear a suit or can I wear khakis and a button down? You can wear khakis and a button down. Make sure it’s pressed. Make sure you look well. There’s no need for a suit. They’ve probably seen your business casual on camera, right? So with that being the case, dress as they’re used to seeing you. If they’re used to seeing you in a suit, wear a suit. But I doubt that’s the case.
4 Things to Do to Find Your Next C Level Job (And None of Them Involve Writing a Resume)
ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. He is hired to provide No BS Career Advice globally. That can involve job search, hiring staff, management, leadership, career transition and advice about resolving workplace issues. Schedule a discovery call at my website, www.TheBigGameHunter.us
He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with over 2500 episodes.
I do a livestream on LinkedIn, and YouTube (on the JobSearchTV.com account) Tuesdays and Fridays at 1 PM Eastern. You can send your questions about job search, hiring better, management, leadership or to get advice about a workplace issue to me via messaging on LinkedIn or in chat during the approximately 30-minute show.
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