Recruiting, careers, and podcasting with the Big Game Hunter Jeff Altman

The notion of working with people, helping them succeed and thrive, not just simply in their careers, but beyond is something that really gets me excited.

This is the not average audio experience.

A welcome to the not average audio experience. Here we are with Jeff Altman, the big game hunter. Love to hear more about that. But obviously, we'll continue over the course of the interview as well. And there it is, right there. There's the fun part. So Jeff, man first we'd like to start by just give us your story. What are some cool stories? How did you become Jeff Hoffman? The Big Game Hunter?

Well, you know, I grew up in New York, in the Bronx, not too far from Yankee Stadium. And I used to play Little League Baseball, there was a pitcher and a catcher and eventually played ball exactly where the new stadium eventually went to college graduated with a degree in political science, which qualifies you for? You have any ideas? Because I don't

to be president. Does that count? Now he's

a us a real estate developer.

Okay, there you go.

And even then he inherited part of the business from his dad. But that's a different conversation. So I graduated with my degree in political science. He was the early 70s. Yes, I went to school in the stone age's and trying to figure out what to do. And I was going through the New York Times, because in the days of old, you look for a job in the newspaper. So that was antique internet service, by the way. And I saw this little three line ad and I almost didn't deploy, management trainee, inexperienced preferred. And I almost didn't apply because I had no experience and inexperienced suggest that you have some fast for I've got the job. And I worked for the first search firm for about a year and a half before starting my own firm, with someone else, where we worked together for about seven, eight years. And eventually, I've owned different agencies gone out on my own, of course. And one day, I came to realize that we just say you're a recruit, as I was for so many years, you know, people don't know how to differentiate between the honest and decent ones and the slimy ones. So I decided that I would do something to differentiate myself, I'm trying to think of what I can do, and Headhunter Headhunter the big game owner, kind of correlated in there. So I love the name, trademark, then I still own the trademark for the term. So if you folks don't do anything around employment for this. And, you know, joking aside, what I do is I coach people in organizations to play big, because somebody's job hunters, so many professionals have been conditioned from the time they were in school. What are the lessons of school? Shut up, do what you're told, regurgitate a bunch of stuff, do what we tell you to do when we tell you to do it? Or else? Isn't that the lesson for so many people in the workplace. So what I try to do is help people be more effective and break out of the systems that firms want to condition them to comply with, even whether it's job search, or how they behave at work. I hate that word behave. But that's a different conversation we'll get to so how do I get here? Long Road, if you can do the math that graduated in 71. Start doing the math. This is not a 22 year old, you're listening?

Well, let's talk about that. So you graduated in in the 70s. But you know what? You don't act like that. Right? You've got a lot of energy. I love it. How do you keep that energy about you? You know, we have we have certain routines we do. Do you have any routines that you do to give that energy to you every single day?

Yeah, I wake up not kidding. The answer is I do a certain amount of exercise, but not a heck of a lot. The real thing is I love what I do. And when you don't like what you do, what starts to happen is you start to feel defeated, you start to get worn down, because it just becomes a job. And for me, even when I did search, it was never just a job because I felt as though what I was doing was making a difference in people's lives. When I was a coach is even more profound because in search in the past by the individual, you're paid by an employer. So you're paid to deliver a person to a job. Now, I try to help individuals really performing an elite level on their interviews, so that when firms see them, you know, the Halo was around, they perform well, they see them as the leaders in their organization. And that makes a difference to me. So that's really where a lot of my energy,

I love that, you know, you talked about being defeated, you know, I think a lot of us that are in where we are right now, you know, in our society, we, we put people in boxes, right? We put people on by, like, go to college, be this be this be this. So as a, as a coach, as someone that helps these people like, how do you, you know, how do you get someone to get that, that jlb? Or that, that, that thing they're going to do on their own? How do you find that passion within them at the beginning, instead of just putting them in a box?

The answer is, often you can't, you have to work with what you got. And through the trust and developing the relationship, and the connection that they start to feel with me, you start to notice in evolution. One person I coach, works for a tech firm came to me basically, because he didn't see himself as a leader in his meetings, like he was in with senior people regularly. And he just didn't think he showed well, even though he was getting positive feedback. And we start to work through situations he was faced with and how we present themselves in different types of scenarios. And all of a sudden, I'm noticing his personalities changing. And now, eight, nine months later, I've got a guy who's performing extremely well as firm as talking with them about a post overseas, running a business unit for them. And lo and behold, we've got an evolution, the guy who was really uncomfortable in his own skin, and now he's able to play bigger in the world. There's so many instances like this, where the relationship is really the place where the work is.

Got it. Yes, go ahead.

It's getting a little better right now. I mean, I mean, it's confidence, a big thing that you try and teachers is that just naturally,

I think it comes naturally as part of the evolution. People think there's a lot of concrete stuff that coaching and there is, but the real thing is how do you get between their ears? How do you get there and help them. There was a story in sports. And last night, was one of the NBA playoff games. And Steph Curry, great ball player two time MVP is talking about the first two games in the series. He's not hitting the three. And this is one of the great three point shooters of our time. And there was a point early in the game. Again, he's not hitting them, he's won for seven in the first half. And he comes out makes a couple of simple plays layups, which should have nothing to do with shooting the three, but he's feeling good about himself, I want to help people feel good about being the best versions of themselves. And in doing that, sometimes they're going to bump up against resistance in their relationships in their workplace in a variety of other places. But ultimately, you know, if they're going to want to play in small, they are entitled to make that choice. But they start to notice they feel better. And they look better. And they get better results when they play bigger. And that's what they really want. Just afraid.

I love that. I love that you use a ball analogy, that basically you get people confident enough to step up and keep keep doing those free throws or free throws first, right then some layups maybe, and then all of a sudden they step back, they hit that three pointer, and then they just go,

they small, slow, incremental changes, don't over time, especially when you can have some fun in the process makes a huge difference. Sometimes the fun is just by asking, so how can you bring some fun into this? And for so many guys in particular, fun is a three letter dirty work.

Jeff, have you ever had to push clients and say, Hey, I can't help you, you're confident enough.

You know, and there's a reason why they've come to me. Okay. So they may say something, they need to be present a lot of confidence. And I know I coached many more people, you know, that really are high performers. And they come to me for weeks. And there's something that's missing for them. I got to figure it out, because sometimes the presenting problem isn't the real one. And you just kind of help them work through

it. You know, something that we talk a lot about on this show is self awareness. And I feel like you help people become more self aware and what they're good at. So, as someone that kind of teaches that to other people, what is something? How did you learn that in yourself?

It's taken a lot of time. It's takes a lot of time and a lot of work. You know, I'm not gonna big the big testimonial therapists, what have you. That was peace. I know, for myself, there have been a lot of men's organizations I've been involved with over the years. That means springboards. For me. I think the first log launch point was an organization. I haven't heard of their name in many years. But there's a guy named Justin Sterling, and he's a bit of a whack job for his time. But he had a training called Men sex and power, provocative name, but he had an alarm clock for masculinity. He was a little wild. And there were pieces of it I didn't really care for. And then I got together with a group of men who had done that training afterwards. And eventually, years later, we went off on one more, that was called that, again, men's groups have terrible names for their trainings. This one was called the new Warrior Training adventure. So it's sponsored by a group that's now known as the mankind project and International Men's organization. And eventually, I went back to staff the weekends and eventually went back and started leading weekends. And got to a point where I started to see the things in my life, they were working and not working. And that's what we what the group does for men, it helps them look at the things in life that work and don't work away from electronics, way from their families for 48 hours, and begin a process of self awareness. And through that, I started to have challenges, successes, support, which for a lot of guys, they don't really have, because they feel compelled to figure it out on their own. Because in our industrial age, that's what guys are taught to do. You have to have the answer. If you don't have the answer, you have to figure it out on your own, or else like isn't a lot easier to get some support.

See, I absolutely love that we always talked about self awareness, kind of being the solitary thing, like you got to figure it out on your killer. And I always talk like, it's the people you surround yourself with, right? And you have somebody who's your great coach right now, but you had people coach you way too, you know, I mean, I mean, it's all like a collaboration community that you surround yourself with.

And in getting immersed in, in groups like this, whether it's the ones I've gone to, or church group or synagogue, or mosque, wherever it is, the notion of getting support is so important for men and women in life. Because, you know, it's connected as we are. And we're, as we're doing this, we have the pleasure of being able to see one another, thank goodness, because it is a different experience, we have the visual cues of the conversation. But for so many folks, they're operating in isolation, they are alone, trying to figure it out, when they make mistakes, they know how to kick themselves in the rear so hard that they never try again. Because that message has gotten through to them from the time that they were little that unless you get it right the first time. You are stupid. Don't try because you're not meant to do this. So the notion of working with people, helping them succeed, and thrive, not just simply in their careers, but beyond is something that really gets me excited. I'm sure.

So I absolutely love that. So probably one of the best self awareness answers we ever gotten on this podcast. So let's flip gears a little bit. So it's not everyday that we get another fellow podcaster on our podcast, which is weird. But we always talk about like brand management, brand awareness. And you know, we always talk about where first there's the awareness side where people just have to know who you are and what you do. And then there's the trust side. You know, and we always think now how podcasting is doing that right now because people want to trust you. So you got out there and you started a podcast and I assume people heard you they liked what you said. And then there was some trust built with your audience and then that leads to a funnel that says, Okay, I want to hang out with you. So what got you even into podcasting in that regard? I mean, you were early on in the game, I mean,

yeah, my first podcast started I want to say in November 2011. It was BlogTalkRadio where I still host the show. And that is the number one show in iTunes. For Apple Music, for job search more episodes than any other with more than 1100, around job search, and no one has approached is close to approaching that number. I can say that because I have the number two show called job search radio. And that has over 700 episodes as at the time of this recording. The first one is starters one day a week with me calling in on the phone. In those days, you could get away with it for 15 minutes Monday morning at 9am. And there were times I thought talk radio with a free subscription because who knew I would ever continue with us. You could call in but you had to do it live a 15 minute rant is what I did. And I remember at times calling in and either the countdown nor show will start in five for man, because there was a time sequence. It gave you the nine o'clock window. And now years later, it's a seven day a week show. The other one is a six day a week show. And you know, it's a gift for me to share what I know, and know that I'm helping so many folks with those experiences gleaned from more than 40 years of doing search, filling more than 1200 full time positions plus consulting assignments, and helping as many as I have indirectly through my podcast, my YouTube channel, which has more than 4000 videos on it at this point. related to job search and hiring. Yes, I'm a content machine.

Yeah, we always talk about how, like, there's so much content now. Right? I mean, there's there's video, there's voice, there's written word. So how do you manage that all, you know, just, you know, something that we've seen as we increase our content, obviously, it's very hard or or there's there's other challenges that you have to face? How do you how do you navigate that?

The answer is you do what's necessary. It's funny. This morning, I was reading a sports story about a Yankee backup catcher. And, you know, he was like a 220 hitter most of his career. He's in his third season with the Yankees series hitting 320, the new manager came to him and said, you can have to hit a little bit better, we'd like to defense, but you got to hit better. So he went to someone else on the team, another backup for advice, made some adjustments, and said something I thought was wonderful if I paraphrase rather than quote, please forgive me. But the notion was, you do what's necessary. You don't do what you want, I would prefer to lie back and do nothing. But what needs to be done to help as many people's I want to help is put in the effort, put in the time and give more of myself so that if I'm coaching a guy in Singapore, that means because of time zones, he's calling me at 7am or times 4am on a Saturday morning, I'm there to help him out to help them get prepared for an interview with its content creation, if that means that there's some of the content that I'm working on each morning at 6am that transcribe it. So winds up on my website, you do what's necessary. And yeah, there's certain things you outsource. But when push comes to sharp, you'll learn to do what's necessary is the right thing

to do. Jeff, I'm going to tell you a number. And I want you to tell us the significance of it. Okay, so 7653

Oh, LinkedIn members 76. So the answer is I was reading one day about this new service that we launched called LinkedIn. And I was doing recruiting looks like an interesting idea and draw it. Now at that time, LinkedIn was a wasteland. There was nothing there. So 7653 was my number. It still is my number on LinkedIn. It's obviously evolved a lot. And in those days, they told you do not connect with anyone that you don't know. Because this is Reid Hoffman's original vision, it was a way of staying connected with folks that you knew. And obviously, thank goodness, it's evolved a lot since then. This way, it's actually useful for people. But yeah, I joined back in in the early days with LinkedIn, and love the platform, especially the way it's evolving now. Yeah, more than just simply an online resume.

Yeah, I mean, do you have anything more to expand on that? Because Caitlin and I talked about even the past 12 months, it's changed completely. Because Ken and I have been on for I think, seven years now. And, you know, it was like what you just said it was A resume online for a while. And that's all people use it for. Now over the past 12 months is becoming like stories and engagements.

Yeah, they seem to have a vision, I have no special knowledge of them. But I just see how, if you share information, if you share opinions, if you start sharing content that you create elsewhere onto the platform, by either uploading it directly or just sharing, people notice you. And the notion of know like, and trust is something that's ingrained in most of us. But the extra piece that I think LinkedIn allows you to do is respect. Know, Like trust and respect to me is the fourth one respect is the missing ingredient. And most of the professional relationships that LinkedIn originally strove for. Because you can now write articles because you can now share links and actual videos because you can now upload video to LinkedIn. More people see, person messaged me last night, actually, several people messaged me yesterday, talking about how they love the content. Groups is a funny thing, I want to see more from groups they've seen to become relatively fallow with a little engagement. But folks, I will tell you, there is such a great opportunity to develop a personal brand for yourself on LinkedIn. And people learn about you to develop relationships. To use the tool in the way that I see it evolving is a way of creating a personal platform for yourself and your ideas. So that people will approach you, as opposed to you having to go to them. It's like years ago, as part of the men's group I was talking with, there was a guy who was in a group, I think he's like an AVP with a New York bank. And in how do I move ahead, and I said to you want to get on the speaker's tour. So this way the executive search firms find, well, these days executive search firms all have LinkedIn recruiter accounts, and is, although they look for correlation in the public sphere, that you are that visible individual that their client would find is a safe and great hire. It starts off with the file cabinet that every search firm, and every employer uses these days, that database that they all use instead of their own, which is now LinkedIn. So how can you position yourself because for those of you who are younger than me, you have a golden opportunity to see it as a career creator for yourself as a way of becoming known in the world, not just for not for cat videos. I'd love a good cat video.

Who does? Absolutely.

So Jeff, what what would what would you tell someone that is just starting on LinkedIn? Let's say they just graduate high school? Or maybe they're graduating college, you know, what would you tell someone? Like how, how would you navigate this new LinkedIn in the best way? For them?

The simplest thing is, it's a long game. It's not a shortcut. So I ran the New York Marathon one year and finished. It when you start the race, and you've trained for it, you see these people out there who are out of condition, and they're out there sprinting the first mile and you know, you they're gonna be walking within another half mile. And the same thing exists on LinkedIn, you have to think of it as a career platform, not just simply I'm looking for a job. So you build your network proactively, so that people get to know you before you need one another. So if you're 22, and a recent college grad, think about what it's like to be 32 and lurching from Job Search to job search, try then each time dolger network who's going to help you that too late? The idea is to do it between recession cycles between need in order to ensure that when you need it, and others need, you will some of them are going to be useful to you. Some of them won't, because frankly, they're going to be out of work. They're going to be looking for jobs, and they're gonna be in the same boat as you. But if people know like trust and respect you because you've developed and maintained a relationship with him between recessionary cycles, you can be in a much advantaged place. So I'll go Back to I lived through the post 911 recession, I lived through 2008. And I say lived through. Because I was in New York for 911. I knew people who were in the towers, I watched the second golden come down. It was a horrible, horrible day. The impact on New York was crashing, emotional side of that, of people, losing jobs, losing lives, knowing people who lost their lives and not knowing what to do. I'm on the receiving end of the phone calls, can you help me? And I couldn't, because no one was hiring. I became a placebo post 2008. I saw it coming in 2007. And I don't want to claim that I knew it was gonna be that bad. But I just knew he was going to be a recession coming up soon as we lost Bear Stearns, and came that weekend where Lehman went out, and at&t and Goldman almost went out a couple of weeks before you realize that careers are precious. And the people need to nurture their careers and their relationships, or else everyone is scrambling each time a search occurs in order to find anything.

Yeah, so Jeff says you went through that 2008 time? You know, in both those times, but you know, for a lot of us, you know, 2008 was the big one that we remember recently. You know, did you know people that got jobs during that time?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, my fill jobs with people during that time. And as part of it was the relationship with my client. And being in touch, because firms don't have a major need for talent during those times. They're cutting back or staying static, knowing ones that are hiring makes a big difference. Yes, people found jobs. And part of it was a relationship with a recruiter. Part of it was relationships with other people who could help them during those times. People got jobs at lower salaries, but they were working. And however it happened, it happened. So throughout 2008, to 2010. Yeah, people were finding jobs. Now. It's just like glory days, people have forgotten those times, and are doing next to nothing to prepare for the next one. I've had an article of Forbes, about proactive networking, talking about how important it is to do right now, at the time that you don't think it needed, because you know, there's another recession coming. You have to be oblivious to the fact that there are economic cycles in the country. So knowing that there's another recession coming, what can you do proactively, the number

one thing that we, we like to ask, as people on our show a lot is just is about personal brand and authenticity, right. And I think LinkedIn gives that authenticity, LinkedIn gives that your personal brand better than any other social platform, right. But one thing we see is there's a lot of people that try to have, you know, their perfect profile picture, and their perfect description, and data, data. And while all thing I think all those are important, give us your take on personal branding, being your own personality, not the same thing you think works for all those other people, and how you coach people through that

simple. I started off with he don't want to be a drone. You don't want to be another me to Canada. And I don't mean that is a reflection of the women's movement and what have you I just needed from the standpoint of being ordinary. You don't want to look like everyone else. And from the standpoint of personality, the way you show personality on LinkedIn more often than not, is by demonstrating your successes professionally. The speaking engagements, the times in front of the camera, the PowerPoints that you have through SlideShare that you can put onto your profile, there are things that you can do to demonstrate professional success, and not a pure ordinary. So for the for example, the contrast this each time I see a visionary leader on LinkedIn. I start laughing because normally this person has no vision whatsoever. But they liked it. They learned that this was a term that they should use visionary leader

or they saw it on somebody else's profile and

most people have no vision whatsoever, and is trying to be critical, but it's the reality of the situations. So what you want to do is demonstrate how extraordinary you are in the venue that you're operating. Whether that is you're an SVP or an MD or executive director of an organization, or you happen to be a developer or whatever the profession is that show in the ways that you can show how terrific you are without being boastful. No one likes a braggart. But we do like people who, who can back up the claims that they make, and not to use the name of my other podcast. Give us BS. Be like no BS.

Got it. Jeff, the more I meet you, I was on a introductory call with you about a month ago. We're doing our podcast right now I can see you're obviously a MasterBrand. under you, obviously, your profile is awesome. You have a podcast that helps you with the brand and that people forget you got a hat that tells you what it is, how do you get that hat? If you need a coach? Walk around? Are you a coach, and that's that's how it works.

And the truth is in my local area, which is Asheville, North Carolina, I have next to no business locally. It's just not a town that sustains the COVID work. But nationally, internationally, in the work that I do from a coaching perspective, I will tell you, people will get on with me. And it's you. I remember that backdrop. I remember the hat. They certainly know the voice in the face, and they really enjoy it. So it's all part of the the packaging that I did for myself.

I love it. So Jeff, do you, with your coaching clients internationally? And obviously in other areas and nationally, internationally? Do you? Do you travel a lot? Or do you do that a lot remotely like this

remotely like this? There isn't next to no reason I need to see anyone in person, when they're there services like zoom available, where you can be connected quickly? And have them see you and develop that relationship? Yeah, if if you're networking, I would I tell people to use the phone, or a service like this, where you can have the feeling of touch, rather than hiding behind email, or text or other services that don't allow you to have the human connection. But at this point, I don't travel to meet people.

That's great. So so from a client perspective, I think we have a lot of coaches that listen to this to this podcast. And you know, from a client perspective, at what point do you say I've gotten, you know, I can't take any more. Never Never. So your doesn't matter. Every, every single person you take.

I will reject certain clients, I don't think I could walk. So understood. You know, that kind of an individual we're not talking about assuming that there's someone to work with, I'll extend my day because I know, you know, eventually they go away, and you start getting the contacts. But the reality is I try to work with everyone.

That's beautiful. Yeah. And so what was that look like from a client perspective? I mean, I'm sure you work some with some people longer than others, depending on the situation, like when to When did people start really seeing the results for themselves?

Well, the classic coaching answer is, well, it depends. And as I tell many people I coach, it depends on you. If you don't do the work, if you don't put in the effort, you're gonna be writing checks to me pretty regularly. But if you want to get me off of payroll, pay it pay attention, or will adapt to other things that you think you should be working on instead. But, you know, they're from a career coaching perspective, a job search perspective, often people are getting results in two to three months, tops. If we don't have chemistry, we disappear from one another at a certain point, they stopped responding to my request of Okay, let's get together again. But results are coming pretty quickly these days, on both the career perspective, and from the standpoint of what I call business life coaching, where I work with self employed people with a lunatic for boss. I know you guys don't know.

Nothing about that. No.

So Jeff, I don't think I'm gonna take a big leap here but being Keter talked about when we have like these conversations with people, they bring us energy and enthusiasm and I can tell by how you're talking. When you talk with clients. I see it just come out of here. I mean, is that what you don't when you're tired if you have a good conversation with the client The second you energy and get you pumped up.

Part of it is you, if I'm getting the feedback, if I feel like I'm having the impact, yes, it makes a huge difference, knowing that I'm helping this person performing, I love my language at that way, because each person's a little bit different as to what the need is. But yeah, you feed off of one another. And you can't, I don't wanna say you get passion from one another. But for me, knowing I'm having an impact makes a huge difference. It's why I do this, knowing how to get results. Yeah, we

talk a lot about legacy on this show. And you certainly have legacy that you're leaving based on your clients and touching their lives. But talk to talk to that some What are you trying to leave here?

Well, I start off with a premise. And it's a lifetime is not a long time. We'd like to think of ourselves as being immortal. But life has a way of showing us how foolish we are the whole that belief, you guys are younger than I am, I'm a little bit further on, on the life cycle than you. And it starts to move a little bit faster. And you start noticing it moving faster. So the urgency starts to pick up. And I hope you have that urgency now, because you'll have that opportunity to do more but earlier than I did. But from the legacy perspective, I kind of think of this visualization that I've led many times, where you kind of notice as you're standing quietly, one day, I hand on your shoulder on your left shoulder. And as you look back, over your left shoulder, you notice your mom is there. And behind her with a handle on her left shoulder is her mom. And as far back as you can go, all the mothers have your lineage. And then you feel the hand on your right shoulder as your father. As you look over that shoulder, there all the hands on shoulders of the lineage that precedes on the father side. As you look ahead, if you have children, you are their legacy. You are the one that will pass on the knowledge, the wisdom or not the hurts the mistakes you make and how you honestly address them with. So legacy is built into what I do. And trying to do it in a good way where I inspire people to change not motivate. And I want to I want to give another coach the credit for that land secretary if you've never had a chance to read his his books. SEC or eta n. Lance talks about the difference between the two is being an internal feeling for inspiration. Motivation is you do it for me you do it or else is a threat involved with it. I don't want to motivate people, I want to inspire people to be great. And that's the legacy is that I've touched enough people through those retreats that I led to the coaching that I do through the circles that I sit in to inspire people to get out of their own self imposed limitations and have the lives that they say they want.

Now that's great. So you had let's say you had one year to live one year to live that's it. What would you do? Would you do anything different?

So I'm just gonna start joking by say, there's a classic joke about the one year to live a guy who goes to the doctor and says his eyes are bulging his face. His neck is enormous. And Doctor says he's got one year to live so he goes off carousing for a year until the last day of his life. He winds up in Times Square. And he sees this solid gold shirt. He's got $20 left. He goes in tells us for a will the shirt back to you I just wanted and the guy says okay, works with me. What size the where he goes 14 and a half 3314 and a half 33 years at least an 18. If you weren't if you were a 14 and a half 33 Your eyes at all Jack, your neck would expire. So I always remember that one joke when you do the one year to live. And the answer is I do a lot of what I'm doing. I'm sure there'd be summit adaptations But I really like what I do. Because I see the difference. I might do more, I might spend more time with my son. But ultimately, I want to leave a legacy in the world at large. And know that I've helped that many more people.

And leave with no regret is what we always say. Right. So we had a great discussion earlier about self awareness, Jeff, so tell us what you're bad at?

Oh, that's an interview

question. What are your weaknesses? I bet you get that all the time, though. Chad,

how do you answer that question?

In the job search perspective, what I coached people to say is, you know, I obviously have weaknesses in your rattle off one or two. But rather than fixate on spending all the energy that I have on getting better at those, I want to be extraordinary the things that I gravitate to, and I'm really good, because that's really where I can make a difference. Well, onto weaknesses. I don't know how to ride a bike, well. I can't ride a bike for Sheth on a bad swimmer. And there are other things that I know I'm not good at. But ultimately, I fixate and work hard at the ones like I am extraordinary. So that this way I can have the impact that I want to have a coaches How did you How'd you like that?

Why have you ever heard that? It's just like, as easy as riding a bike. So that has no context to you at all? No,

it's not easy for me.

Oh, gosh. So, Jeff, I believe we're coming to the end of the podcast right now. So I mean, is there anything that you want to leave our audience right now?

You know, it's all within you. Folks, you have the answers. And most of the time, you're afraid to follow up. And we're coaching can help you whether it's with me or someone else, is help you get over the fears and take the step forward, small steps. Another story I'll just share. It's it's a parable about how lions hunt gazelle. Lions can never catch gazelle. They're just too bad, but they're just too fast for them. But they have a system in place to catch them. And the way the system works, even incorporates the oldest lions, who go out and they hide. And the young lions herd the gazelle in the direction of the old lions. And again, the young lions can catch them. But just at the moment that the gazelle are straight up, they're almost right on top of the old lions, the old lions stand up and war, which terrifies the young ones. And thus they turn around and run back into the teeth of the young ones who kill them. If a lion ran in the direction of I'm sorry, thicker sell right in the direction of the old lions, they were clearly outgrown them, but their fear gets in the way. Folks, if you're roadblocked, in someplace, it's time to go to the wall and run into the direction of the teeth of the lion, the thing that you fear most, so you can have what you really want. And yes, with support that makes it easier. It doesn't have to be as hard, difficult, painful, or take a long time. But with support and taking small steps, and having some fun along the way. You'll get what you

know, I don't you know, I don't think we've had a parable like that before.

First time, I love it. That's a great way to leave our audience. So Jeff, how can how can our audience find you? What's the best way we got to make then you got a website

linkedin.com forward slash i n forward slash, the big game hunter. Website is the big game hunter.us. And I've got a ton of information on that site. It's over 5000 posts have gone on to that slide around job search, hiring, life, the universe and everything.

And your podcast. Let's give a shout out.

No BS job search advice is the original one with more than 1100 episodes. Currently, job search radio was the second one. And the one thing that I'm working on now is no BS coaching advice. And if you want to get to my YouTube channel, the easiest way is to go to job search tv.com that takes you directly to the channel.

Hey, Jeff, thank you for joining us. This was certainly a No BS podcast. We appreciate it, man. There's that little loud noise we need Vance. Awesome. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. Cool.

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