Launch Your Career. Get Ahead. |

By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter

Only 20% of jobs and internships are posted online. My guest, Sean O’Keefe, the author of “Launch Your Career: How Any Student Can Create Relationships with Professionals and Land the Jobs and Internships They Want” discuss how to do exactly that . . . and there is info for experienced professionals, too.

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Jeff Altman [00:00]

So, my guest today is Sean O’Keefe, an award-winning professor at Santa Clara University, and the founder and partner of career launch a mission driven social enterprise that partners with colleges to equitably scale students’ abilities to create professional relationships and launch effective job or internship searches in the hidden job market, especially for students with few to no employment connections. By the way, folks, in case you haven’t noticed, He is a professor. That was one long sentence that was perfectly correct grammatically. He recently published a five-star book called launch your career, how any student can create relationships with professionals and land the jobs and internships they want. Sean, welcome. Thanks for making time today.


Sean O’Keefe [00:49]

Hey, so glad to be here with you, Jeff. It is my pleasure.


Jeff Altman [00:53]

Thank you. So, you spoke about the hidden job market. And I’m always curious, like, hidden job market? Where is it hiding? How do people find where it’s hiding so they can expose it to the light of air?


Sean O’Keefe [01:09]

Yeah, so I found this out in junior year in college. right out of high school, I went to community college and then I transferred to a public university. My junior year I’m sitting in class, I majored in communication I minored in sports management, I have this professor in sports management said, hey, class, who here would like to have a paid internship this summer with a professional sports team? Well, you can imagine every went up, right. And he had three classes of 60 students and he had five internships, to hand out through connections that he had. And he said, the only fair way I know how to hand out these internships is to the students with the best grades. Well, my head went down, my shoulder shrunk, I was not one of the students. But he went on to say, if you consider yourself a hard worker, and you want to zig and zag 80% of jobs are in what’s called the hidden job market, meaning they’re never posted on LinkedIn, or, or If you add up all those job sites, that’s only 20% of all jobs and internships. The rest are found through relationships and connections. And so, he said, if you don’t come from a family, or a community or a background, where you have connections, you’re not doomed. You actually, you can create them from scratch. So, coming up, if you could, but it’s gonna take a lot of hard work. And but if you’re one of those, if you feel like you’re one of those students then come to my office hours. So, I did. I had a paper route when I was in middle school, waking up at [4:30] in the morning, you know, to deliver newspapers, and then had jobs and played sports in high school, I was afraid of hard work. I just wasn’t a great student. Long story short,


Jeff Altman [02:54]

To translate for the audience. These papers, that’s antique MSNBC, and Sorry, please continue.



yes, yes. So, I showed up at the office hours, I say, hey, you know, so what do I need to do, I’d love to get an internship with a professional sports team. And over the course of several interactions, and several stop by the office, he taught me to zig and others zag and proactively identify the organizations that I wanted to work for. In my case, it was professional sports team, but over the last 11 years of teaching, the career launch method, which is in the book that you pointed out at the top. Students with interest in any industry students that two-year schools, students, a four-year school students and master’s programs can use a step-by-step process that we now call the career launch method that I clumsily did myself 20 years ago. And because of this professor that I had, and I ended up getting three internships with the San Francisco 40 Niners though, the Oakland A’s and the San Francisco Giants. And those three internships led to a full-time job after graduation. Two of the three internships were in the hidden job market, they were never posted online. And one of the internships the woman created because she was positively impacted, impressed by my proactive outreach to build relationships and inquire about careers and inquire about her path and, and what it would do what it would take to get an internship. So, she created one for me. And so, I got a full-time job with the Oakland as after graduation. And as I went through my early mid-20s, I realized in talking with friends and coworkers and clients, etc. Man, I was really lucky to get the advice from this one professor at me at my undergraduate studies. So, I went back to school to get my MBA 25 through 28 years old, and during that time, I had a conversation with the dean and I expressed my gratitude for this undergraduate professor, I had to get it to get my dream job. And I said, I really want to pay it forward somehow, one day and later on, he said, well, Shawn, how would you like to become a professor and teach as an adjunct? So, I did that. And that led to me teaching in the business school and then the woman who runs our first-generation college student program at our university, and said, hey, I am hearing great things about this class you’re teaching. Can you teach a class for first generation engineering, first generation humanities and arts and science students? And I said, yes, as a as a professor, that’s the biggest compliment you can get is will you design and teach a class? So, I said yes to that. And then two years after teaching that class, I think 2017 2018, the woman who runs the program, Erin Kumral, while she said, I think, Sean, you got to figure out a way to bring this to the world, this curriculum is not being taught. And it’s having an incredible impact on students. So that led to having conversations with other professors and being offered to write a book and then also, our university investing in our social enterprise called career launch, where we provide co-curricular services to other colleges and universities. We have this 28-day micro learning program where students can get 10 minutes of video a day for 28 days to learn this method instead of reading a 200-page book.


Jeff Altman [06:17]

Excellent. So, using yourself as a model here, back in the day, when you were the student, how did you find those jobs? Those internships that were hidden. What did you do back then? And then we’ll go talk about how it’s upgraded for today.

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Sean O’Keefe [06:35]

Yeah, sure. Well, step one is just make a list of the organizations that I wanted to work for step two was to identify the right people at the organization. So, I didn’t get the best grades wasn’t a 4.0 student, but I was smart enough to realize that CEOs CFOs and a lot of times at bigger companies, vice presidents, they’re probably one going to be harder to get to have a conversation with. And number two is, they probably also don’t hire interns or recent college grads. And of course, you know, a 22-year-old, 23-year-old someone right out of college, they’re also probably not someone that has authority to hire interns or recent college grads. But a lot of times at midsize organizations and large organizations, mid-level management, those are the people who usually end your paintings with a broad stroke here. Those are the people that hire interns and recent college grads, so I, I just made a list of 30 people. So, the five major barrier sports teams, here in Northern California, I mean, I made a list of the director of marketing, the director of operations, Director of Finance, the director of blank, and I just put everyone into Microsoft Excel sheet back in the day and figured out what their email address was. Sometimes it was on the on their website. And sometimes it wasn’t, sometimes I had to decide to guess there was no LinkedIn, there was no email finding tools like there are nowadays. And then I just mixed-up phone calls with emails, and like, you know, it was scary, especially the phone calls. You know, I remember being in my dorm room having to get out of my chair. I was so nervous, I couldn’t even sit down and make the call is like, I’m calling these people who have like, my dream job. And so, I tried to make myself sound as like mature as possible, and I was freaking out on the inside. But anyways, that outreach, I kind of, you know, did you know something each week, and sometimes people will tell me a call back next week, call back next month, never call me again, or you need to talk to HR you need to you know, you need to do this. But unless I got a hard No, I would polite the use professional persistence and politely figure out ways I could circle back without saying the same thing every time. And, you know, after a couple months of doing that with 30 different people, I got my first person to saying yes to take in a conversation and that conversation led to an internship.



Folks, I want you to catch what he said there. I’m going to ask him to repeat it. How long did it take for you calling those 30 people to get your first conversation?


Sean O’Keefe [09:10]

Two months.



Two months. So, if you think it’s one and done one phone call, and you’re suddenly going to go, yes, this is this is the woman This is the man of my dreams. Don’t kid yourself like dating, it takes time to fall in love. And they don’t even know if they want to go and with you. So just recognize that professional persistence is a term that he used to describe his own efforts in order to get the foot in the door. And how would you do it differently now and then we’re going to go into the actual conversations that you had.



Yeah, so I brought this to the classroom. So, I started teaching as an adjunct in January of 2010. And every class I’ve taught since then, and now I’m a non-tenure track faculty, and it’s a 2016 so I teach much more frequently than I was back then. Every class I have students have to have to complete a career conversation assignment. For the last 30 years, a lot of career centers and higher ed folks use the term informational interview. We found through research that changing the terminology, from informational interview to career conversation has two major impacts one for the student, it reduces anxiety, it’s much, it’s much easier to think about doing a career conversation, just having a conversation versus that word interview trips, you know, you’ll kind of automatically induces some anxiety in students. And then on the, on the on the other side of the coin, from the professionals. In our data, once we made the change, that the ratio of getting a yes, when students reach out, is higher from the from, from the professionals so that professionals like the terminology, better it sits better with them, too. So nowadays, after teaching this in the classroom for 11 years, in the last three years, with college students across the country, through our partnerships through our social enterprise, we’ve created a formula that’s in the book that takes this systematic approach and reduces it down in eight steps with a bunch of micro steps. And its Step four, the method is how to do the outreach. So, we’ve tried all different things like what I did 20 years ago was, it took too much like you said, you pointed out to the audience, it took you two months to get that first conversation. And we haven’t. We’ve tried so many different things over the last 11 years. Now students, once they do the preparation for the first three steps of the method when they get to step four, and they use the templates that we have there getting their first conversation within the first week. Most of the time, most of the time, not every time. But I would say over 50% of students are sending up their first conversation within a week of going through the method.


Jeff Altman [12:03]

Nothing works every time, folks. But if you do enough of the right things, you get great results. And like Sean said, you wind up with interviews a lot sooner than what he did back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. So, the following steps to get them in the door, I want to share with it. Step number four is

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Sean O’Keefe [12:26]

Yes, so we break down Step four, which is outreach into warm networking and cold networking. And we know warm networking is utilizing any relationship, existing relationships and cold networking is the rest of the world of people you don’t know and you have no connection to I made the mistake. When I was in college that I assumed I didn’t. I definitely knew I didn’t know anyone who worked in professional sports. But I assume no one in my family went to a new anyone who worked in professional sports. So let me let me show this with you. Because it’s really important. And this could pay off quickly for a lot of folks. When I was 29. I’m at Easter Sunday sitting on the couch having a beer with my uncle. And we’re watching the San Francisco Giants play baseball. And I’m working for the Oakland as at this point, I hustled during college to get those internships. I’m working full time for the Oakland A’s. And he says, hey, you should meet my buddy who works for the San Francisco Giants. And I’m like Uncle Bill, you have a friend who works for the giants. Why didn’t you tell me that like 10 years ago? Here’s the mistake I made. I just prejudged my uncle. My uncle didn’t go to college. He’s You know, he started working full time, you know, right after high school. And I just assumed he didn’t have any connections in professional sports. But here’s the question I want you to write down and remember it this is the question I just drew a blank quote The question is, you don’t happen in know anybody who blank Do you? You don’t have to know anyone who blank Do you? So, if I would have said in during college to my uncle, you don’t happen to know anyone who works in professional sports, do you? He would have said Yes, I do. I I’ve been bowling with you know, I bought a league with this gentleman who works for the San Francisco Giants. But I didn’t ask that question. So, over the last couple years, we we’ve started implementing this into our curriculum. And students as you can imagine, you just you don’t know what you don’t know. And if you talk to 50 people over the course of a year and you asked every all 50 people you don’t have to know anyone who works in finance so you don’t have to know any work when he works in engineering. Do you don’t happen to know anyone who’s a nurse? Do you like whatever you’re interested in getting into? At some point you’re bound to run into someone who says yeah, I have a neighbor I have a daughter. I have a mom and like, it just it’s magic. You don’t happen to know anyone who blamed Do you and so that that is a great way to tap into the warm network side of things. In the book, and we focus on the cold networking, and that we really like to call proactive strategic networking. Because there’s a lot of power in being intentional and strategic. So, step one of the methods is written down 10 Organizations, you might want to work for companies, nonprofits, higher education, like whatever industry, you’re trying to get into just write down 10 organizations. Step two is identified five people at five of those organizations. So, you come up with this list of 25 strategic contacts. I mentioned Step four is outreach. And we’re going to get into that a little bit before you start your outreach though. You if you’re a student, on your student email address, create an email signature, your name your what your major or your minor, if you’re part of a student club, put that there to the obviously the name of your university, and then have a LinkedIn URL to your LinkedIn profile, also in your email signature, why? So, it’s really important when we teach and coach college students, that the psychology of the professional if you’re in this doesn’t just apply to college students, you know, any anyone in any walk of life. But as a college professor, we wrote this for the student audience. But if you’re going to reach out to someone you’ve never met, the first thing that they want to know is that you are who you say you are. So how can you make someone feel comfortable? Well, in your email, which if you’re a student, it should come from address, right? Or if you happen to be a high school student and wants to do this, you know, your school email address, and then you have the email signature and your LinkedIn URL. And it doesn’t have to be the perfect LinkedIn. At least for the purpose of this, you want to have the professional be able to click on something that’s a third party and verify that you are who you say you are. And just doing that greatly increases the rate of getting a yes. Alright, so to answer your question more directly on Step four, the outreach, so we found that email, email, phone call LinkedIn message, and then well we call it give up email is the right amount of professional persistence without coming close to being annoying or too aggressive. And now they torture



With what space in between them.

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Yeah. So um, so when students, when anyone finishes a list of Top 25, strategic contacts, we tell them to pick five on whenever day one is of doing outreach, pick five and 25. Don’t just do one, don’t do all 25. But do five, because you have to customize each and every email. And that takes a little bit of time and thought. And then once you press send, if you don’t get a response from those five, you’re gonna wait two business days. So, weekends and holidays don’t count. And then if you don’t get a response, with Gen Z calls getting ghosted, you’re going to send an email number two, two business days later. And that’s a different email, and it’s much shorter. And if you continue to get ghosted, you’re gonna wait two more business days and make a phone call. Phone call doesn’t work, you leave a voicemail, and don’t get a call back, you’re gonna wait two more days, and send a LinkedIn message, and you’re gonna have to customize, and we have templates for all this in the book, and through all of our methodologies, our resources. And then, if that still doesn’t work, and a lot of people are gonna say yes, during this process, but if that still doesn’t work, the last thing you do is you wait two more days, and you send a, what we call a give up email, you’re signaling to the professional, you’re stopping your outreach mustn’t, you know, and you’re going to probably write a copy of your resume and say, you know, please, for this a resume, or keep me in mind for future opportunities, which is amazing about this give up, you know, on date, day nine of this method, business day nine, is that we’ve had several students who never got a response from the person that they reached out to. But the but the person did forward the resume on the last day, and that and we’ve had students get interviews for full time jobs and then get the job. And then after starting on day one, they met the person who forwarded the resume on to a colleague.



It’s amazing how that works. And I know I know from having worked in surge, the give up type of message, the one that basically says, sorry for having wasted your time, wasn’t trying to be annoying. You know, it’s like a classic thing in sales. I’m sorry, I’m such a poor salesperson. So last thing to say at the door, and all these old-fashioned classic sales techniques. I’m sorry, I’m such a poor salesman. I couldn’t persuade just the merits of my product. Oh, you’re not a bad salesperson, which put the person turns around goes back and said sounds it’s the same thing that you’re talking about. Where you’re basically saying, Okay, I’m done. Here’s my resume if you know something, please forward it and they do. Not all of the time but enough of the time, you’re giving them something. Yeah, this thing where you’re playing on their guilt? Yeah, it’s great. So, when they get in the door, what do they ask about?


Sean O’Keefe [20:13]

Yeah, so the steps of the lunch method, steps five and six are preparation and advanced preparation. So, we want to help you put a lot of effort and effort into getting this career conversation is usually scheduled for 20 minutes is right ask amount. And then it’s like, Okay, so what do you wear? What do you know? When do you arrive? Whether it’s on video chat or in person? There are different answers to that. How to make small talk. So, you just don’t you aren’t just a robot firing off question after question. And then as far as the questions you ask, what should you prioritize if you only have 20 minutes that can fly by? So, we cover all that, you know, in step five of the book, and then advanced preparation is step six. And we specifically call out how to end the conversation with a mutually agreed upon next step. Because different students are different job seekers have different goals of these informal career conversations. Some are doing it just to discern and learn by curiously because they’re not, maybe not maybe they’re not trying to get a job or an internship right now. They’re just trying to figure out what they want to do with their life. And they want to learn by curiously from professionals and get an idea of which different paths they can choose with their different interests. So, we have, you know, templates and suggestions on how to end that type of conversation. But if a student or you know, a job seeker wants to turn that informal conversation into a formal interview, how do you do that transition? So, we have a four-question sequence. That is magic. I mean, maybe that’s, I don’t think it’s overstating. It’s amazing how many students have taken this four questions sequence. And here it goes, it’s in you can’t do this at the beginning of the career conversation, because you would sound disingenuous, because you asked to like to learn about the person’s career. But if you ask it at the end, it’s totally acceptable. And the professionals expecting that you pick that person for a reason. So obviously, you’re probably interested in their career and or their company and possibly working there. So, the first question is, what characteristics do you look for in the ideal intern, ideal recent college grad ideal blank? And when you ask that question, they’re gonna give you the answers to the test. And so, you listen, you maybe take some notes or mental notes. And then the second question of before is, you know, thanks for sharing. Would it be okay, if I told you a little bit more about myself? And then over the next one to two minutes, everything that they mentioned about the ideal candidate? That’s true about yourself? You share that? Exactly. And then, as you finish up that then the logical next question is based on the little bit about you know about me, do you think I’m someone that would be a good fit? And assuming that there was a match there, they’re probably going to say, yes.



Yes, sure. Sure.

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And then the last question is actually pretty easy. It’s just kind of goes with the flow. Well, what do you suggest as next steps? Or Who do you think I should talk to? And then you’re off, you have a mutually agreed upon next step to get an interview. And sometimes it’s like, well, we have nothing available right now. But we usually hire for these types of positions in September or, you know, why don’t you check back with me in two months? Or actually, this has happened for several students, not everyone. But you know why we have a position open right now. Would you like to talk about that? can we kind of transition into that, I think, I think and then we’ve had students on the career conversation, they go way past the 20 minutes, and then have it turned into an interview on the spot. And we’ve even had, you know, Isaac Nablus is one of the stories in the book. Isaac got interviewed on the spot after the career conversation during the conversation. And before the interview was over, he had a verbal job offer for a full-time job after he graduated.


Jeff Altman [23:57]

Fabulous, absolutely fabulous. And I just simply say, I’m sure you talk with the with the students about behaviorally, not just the words, but how they’re supposed to act during the interview as well. Could you speak to a little bit of that, please?


Sean O’Keefe [24:13]

Yeah, so the goal is to make sure that that the professional feels like it was worth their time, right? You reached out there’s a lot of this is done cold networking, right? They did not know you before. So not only is you know, our students and jobseekers representing themselves, but for students, they’re representing their university. So, it’s really important that the professional feels good about it. And so, you know, enthusiasm and posture and nonverbal language is things that we talked about. And in in step five with the method during the during the preparation,



its folks, I’ll simply say your energy levels important. Now, if you’re up for a quantitative role, it’s a different behavior than for a marketing role and just recognize what it is the audience wants to know about you, not just simply your knowledge, but how you present yourself, what’s the likelihood that a client or someone actually, quantitative work is going to need to be, hey, pretty small, right? But you’ll learn that as you start reading the book, it is terrific, by the way, folks. So, back in the day, you sent out emails, and follow this process, and then really work your personal network. And you spoke a little bit about asking people who you knew who you would have to know someone who What else should people be doing in order to, to check in with their personal network, or expand into the Actually, let’s get the personal network for now, let’s talk in terms of making the connections to with people that they don’t know, because that’s the only statistical probability of where they’re going to start having these conversations.


Sean O’Keefe [26:05]

Yes. So, step seven, the method is effective follow up and keeping the relationship alive. So, we don’t want these career conversations to be a transaction, meaning if you meet someone for 20 minutes, maybe it goes 30 minutes, and then you never talked to the person again, for the rest of your life. That’s what we would what we don’t want. And so, but it takes some effort to cultivate a relationship. And it’s really the job seeker the student’s responsibility to cultivate that over time. So, we have found, there are four things that the student or job seeker should do after they have this informal career conversation. Of course, an email within 24 hours should be sent expressing gratitude. That’s a no brainer. Unfortunately, not every college student does that. But that should be a no brainer.


Jeff Altman [26:56]

Not every adult does it either. Yeah, it’s a different conversation.


Sean O’Keefe [27:00]

Second, would be a handwritten thank you note on top of the thank you email, and you know, and sometimes students, are you concerned about well, do I say the same thing? No, you all, you slightly alter it slightly, but it’s not going to be a long-winded email, and it’s not gonna be a long winded, thank you note. But employers know how much effort goes into writing an email. And employers know that there’s more effort that goes into a handwritten thank, you know, especially for Gen Z, right? A lot of Gen Z, Gen Z is they don’t have a thank you note at home, they don’t have stamps at home. So, they have to probably go to the grocery store and buy and buy a thank you note and buy a stamp and envelope maybe and, and then you know, handwrite the email him write the note and put in the mail. And, and, and it’s amazing like it, some people might think, oh, that’s old school. I just had a student apply for went through the programming. Why don’t get a job with Adidas international student, or, yeah, go to the United college United States from Japan want to get a job with Adidas, in Japan 2000 applicants for two positions in this certain department at Adidas. And she made the final eight. And during the final interviews, after whenever final interviews, she contacted me and she said Hey, you know, I think that people are still working from home from what I can see on the video chat. So, I don’t think it makes sense. It’s not worth you know, sending a thank you note, because one, they’re working from home, and I don’t know their home address. And number two is like my letters got to go across the ocean. I don’t think he’s going to get there in time by the time they make their decision. And so, I convinced her you hope you hope that it would be a good idea to do it. Because even if she doesn’t get the position that at some point, the person is going to go in the office, get the note and they’re going to think very favorably of her, and maybe it will help her get it another position down the line. Long story short, she sends the thank you email in the mail, the person does get it before the decision gets made. She gets one of the two positions. During her onboarding. They specifically called out and said you Whoa, it was a really tough decision by the final eight. And there was virtually everyone had a very similar application at that point everyone had interviewed Well, we liked all eight. The reason you got one of the two spots is because you took the time to handwrite a thank you email and send it during the pandemic knowing that we may or may not have gotten it. So please, everyone out there. Even if you have doubts, send a handwritten thank you note.



Notice folks, what she does, I did and what Sean is talking about things that you can do to differentiate yourself from the competition. Because if you’re just like everyone else, how did they choose? And that that’s true when you become more experienced as well. Because everyone is qualified, when you become more experienced, they know how to read a resume, they can see the basics of what you’ve done. The interview is about confirming it and trying to get a feel for you as a human being. And everyone says the same things. I can do this, I could do that I have done this, I have done that. And what makes you stand out, it becomes little things that become the tiebreakers that include the I’m really interested in this opportunity, I’m looking forward to hearing from you expressing your interest in the role, because on their side, one of the things they’re terrified of invest all this time and all this effort to get the approvals and then make the offer and it gets turned down. So, giving them something that says I’m interested, works beautifully for folks. Sean, what else should we cover today? Because, you know, we’ve already been off for a half hour if you can believe it, and is doing great, what else we’ll be covering in the time that we have.

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Sean O’Keefe [31:07]

I can share a story of a student who implemented the method and the follow up in Atlanta to an internship with Google.



Excellent, let’s do that. So how did she do it? What did she do? or What did he do?


Sean O’Keefe [31:27]

So, Lydia was going into her senior year, first generation college student, and I had a job offer from one of the big four accounting firms, Price Waterhouse Coopers, and she signed and she was going to, she made more money in her first year than her parents combined. And so, but and she had this job offer before she showed up today, one of her senior years, she could have just coasted during her senior year and just not pressed herself. But she said to her, after going through the career launch curriculum, she thought it’d be really cool to finish her college during her time in college with an internship at Google. So, as she’s going through the career launch method, and one of the companies that she put on our top 10 list during step one was Google. And on our top 25 List of strategic contacts was the co-founder of Google X, his name is Tom Chi. And so, she gets to you know, she has an email signature, step three and LinkedIn profile, step four. And on day one, she sends the email template that we you know, we suggested in the book. And she gets a response from Tom Chee, the co-founder of Google X, after the very first email, that does not always happen, usually, it’s the second email. And sometimes it’s you got to make the phone call, because some professionals will never say yes to an email, they want to see that the student has the tenacity and the courage to make a phone call. But Lydia got a yes, from the first email to the co-founder of Google X. He says, Lydia, I understand that you’re about you know, 45 minutes to an hour away. So, if you want to do a video chat, that’s fine. This is pre pandemic, she says, no, actually, my professor requires us to do these in person. And so, I’ll take the train, and I’ll come I’ll come up to San Francisco. So, she does she does all the preparations, step five. And step six, she has a, you know, highly effective conversation. At the end, she tries to, you know, use that four questions sequence to inquire about an internship. And she does. And at the end of it, she says, well, you know, what would be next steps. Unfortunately, I don’t have anything right now. But you can feel free to, you know, follow up, follow up. And so, she says, Thanks. And she leaves, she takes the train back to her college. And she sends a thank you email. The next morning, she puts a handwritten thank you note in the mail. And then a month later, she calls to check in. And actually, she made a call and didn’t email check in. And he had offered, you know, given her permission to call, I think he gave a business card at the time. And so, she had the phone number, and she said, hey, Tom, you know, it was really great to meet you last month, um, you had mentioned that, you know, to check in with you from time to time. You know, is there anything available? He said, and by the way, Tom had left Google and was added in some investments in some startups. He said, one of the companies that I’ve invested in, needs to build out an accounting system. I think you’d be a great fit for it. Would you like to come on board as a paid intern, you’d quasi report to the entrepreneur and quasi report to me. Of course, she said, yes. I mean, can you imagine Jeff, what it was like for Lydia on her, you know, her next call to her parents, who are already thrilled that she got a job with a top four accounting firm, can now say that she got a paid internship reporting to the co-founder of Google X.



Unreal, it’s a gorgeous story, really. illustrates a lot of the things that I have to say experienced professionals can do as well. Yeah, absolutely. These techniques, and I’ve gone through the book. So, I can say with certainty, these techniques work, no matter where you are professional. It’s just about reaching out to people to begin a relationship and maintaining the relationship over the course of time. So, they learn to know, like, trust and respect you. For students, it’s known as and trust, I don’t think there’s a way that you can get respected. At the student level, I think that they’re just gonna like you, and they’re gonna want to give you a chance. But for you, veteran people, and are having these career conversations with folks regularly, not just when you’re looking for something regularly. It’s the way to do it. Because what’s the statistic on probabilities of getting hired? If you’re introduced by someone versus applying for a job call? Is it 12 times more likely?


Sean O’Keefe [36:02]

12x yep.



12 times more likely to be hired, if you’re introduced by someone, versus if you’re doing a call. Sean, this is fabulous. How can people get a copy of here it comes the book, the workbook, anything else? How can they find out more about you the book and everything?



Yeah, thanks so much, Jeff. Amazon, Barnes and Noble target, every major retailer, you can find the book, anyone in higher education out there, or nonprofits or government agencies that serves students, you can go to launch. academy not .com. Academy, career launch. Academy and learn more about our co-curricular services, micro learning programs, and certifications. And the assessment we have a 40-question assessment that looks at the five main competencies that are needed to excel in creating relationships from scratch and accessing the hidden job market. So, you could go to and purchase a copy of the assessment. It’s included for free in the book. But if you just like to take the assessment, you go to career to pick up or utilize a copy or access the assessment.



Folks get the book. And if you if you watch me or listen to me, you know, I don’t say that very often. Just get the book. It makes it a lot easier for you, Sean, thank you. And folks, we’ll be back soon with more. I’m Jeff Altman the big game hunter. Hope you enjoyed today’s interview. If you do, you’re watching on YouTube, click the like button, share it, let someone know it was worthwhile. It’ll help them you’ll feel good about yourself. Also want to say connect with me on LinkedIn at again mention that you saw the interview or listened to the interview. I like knowing I’m helping some folks. And once we’re connected, your network is going to grow a heck of a lot because mine tends to be a lot larger than most people’s. Also want to say my website which is the you can schedule time for free discovery call scheduled time for coaching. Go to the blog, where I’ve got 1000s of posts that you can watch listen to or read that will help you land your role no matter where you are in your job search career, etc. Hope you have a terrific day and most importantly, be great. Take care

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Jeff Altman, The Big Game HunterJeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with over 2400 episodes.

Are you interested in 1:1 coaching, interview coaching, advice about networking more effectively, how to negotiate your offer or leadership coaching? People hire me to provide No BS career advice whether that is about a job search, hiring better, leadership, management or support with a workplace issue. Schedule a discovery call at my website, 

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