Interviewing for Young Adults/Recent Grads | JobSearchTV.com
By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
You can find a job faster if you know how to interview well. Gene Rice has been named one of the 100 most influential search professionals of all time and has written a book called “Grad to Grownup: 68 Tips to Excel in Your Personal and Professional Life “https://amzn.to/3Mm5Ers. We cover interviewing in this video.
Misconceptions College Grads Have About Job Hunting
Jeff Altman
So my guest today is Gene Rice. Gene is a leading executive recruiter, co founder and chairman of Rice Cohen International, a keynote speaker and executive coach and was recognized by recruiter.com as one of the 100 most influential people in the history of recruiting. And he’s helped 1000s of people capture their dream job. He’s also co-founder of the Planted Seed Inspire a Dream Foundation, which helps children pursue their passions, and co-author of Grad to Grownup: 68 Tips to Excel in Your Personal and Professional Life.” Gene, thanks for making time today. How the heck are you?
Gene Rice
Jeff, I’m doing well, my friend, thank you for having me.
Jeff Altman
And we’re doing the show today about interviewing geared toward grads. So let’s just start off diving right in and go. ‘What should grads know, related to interviewing? Where do they make mistakes? What should they really do to start off with?
Gene Rice
Well, listen, first of all, I want to tell you, Jeff, I really believe one of the goals that every graduate should have, not just graduates, but any any person who has a job. I think one of your goals in life should be to become I call it a grandmaster of interviewing, a Hall of Fame interview. Now, why is that so important? Jeff, it’s important for two reasons. When you interview for that job, you really want the Grandmaster, the one who understands how to professionally interview, they’re the ones who get the jobs, number one. But number two, they also can get a higher compensation if they’re a grandmaster of interviewing. And I’m telling you, the colleges, even the young people that I’ve dealt with, the interns, you know, if they, if they’re one of the few that go to the Career Center and ask for advice on interviewing, every college is preparing the young adults the same way. So when they go out, and they finally interview, they’re interviewing against everyone else who’s interviewing the same way they do.
Jeff Altman
And they all act like little interview robots. What makes one any different than the other? It’s like buying a container of milk. Like, I don’t buy a brand of milk most of the time; it’s all the same to us. So what makes someone stand out? So what should someone do to standout?
Gene Rice
Well, let me just share with you, I have a five step process that I train all of the young adults with. I also use it to train CEOs. I’ve had the opportunity to place over 1000 people in jobs,. My company has placed 10,000 This is the process that we all use. Now there is some upfront prep work, right? You have to do your research. You have to do your background, you got to read about the company. I really encourage all young adults to, when you go into an interview, you should have reasons in your mind why why you’re interested, why you’re going to spend an hour on his interview. Now, whether it’s a job description you read, whether it’s going on the website and reading about the company, you should have reasons already identified why you’re interested. That’s the upfront work. Okay. Now, here’s step number one. And here’s what I tell all young people, Jeff. You’ve been doing this for a very long time. I’m going to ask you, if you were interviewing five young adults, right, and two of them, interviewed phenomenal. Both of them had identical experience. Both of them could come in and do a fantastic job for the position you’re trying to fill. But Jeff, all you have is one open. Let me ask you a question. What do you think might make you lean towards one versus another?
Jeff Altman
Who I connect with.
Gene Rice
Absolutely.
Jeff Altman
That wasn’t rehearsed, by the way,
Gene Rice
Here’s step number one. The person who builds the best chemistry and establishes the best rapport, they win all ties, right. So how do you do that? That’s what young adults don’t understand. How do you create that chemistry. So the most important thing, when they go in there, they want to get that person talking about something besides the position. They want to connect with them. So you got to go in, you have to look on LinkedIn. You got to look at their background, look at the college, they went to, see if there’s any connections between the things that they’re interested in, that you’re interested in. You have to Google the person you’re meeting with. You have to learn as much as you can about that person. And if you can’t find out anything, then you go into that interview and if it’s a zoom, maybe you steal with your eyes. You look around the room. Maybe there’s a picture of them with their son or daughter playing soccer. Maybe there’s a picture of them on a vacation with their wife or their husband. You gotta steal with your eyes, and if you can’t find anything, talk about the weather, talk about what brought them to the company. But the goal is to establish rapport and chemistry because after the interview is over, at the end, I’m going to ask you to send a follow up email within 24 hours, and I’m going to expect something personal in that. But the better they can do to establish rapport, chemistry, before the interview starts, the better the interview will go. That’s step number one.
Jeff Altman
This is before the interview, they’re first looking to see if there’s something they can find out online, that they can relate to and have a conversation about. And barring that, you’re doing a peek around the room to say, “Oh, Father Rice over there. Because if you’re listening to this in a podcast form, here’s a picture of his left shoulder that has the heading Father Rice. Doesn’t look like you. So I’m wondering if it’s your dad?
Gene Rice
No, that’s me. One of my one of my staff members asked me to be the officiant at their wedding, Jeff. And they gave me that as a gift after.
Jeff Altman
So, you’ll notice I picked up on something around him that he could we could relate to. That might be interesting. So again, before and during, there’s opportunities to find a way to connect with something about this person.
Gene Rice
Absolutely. And Jeff, that’s the first step. And that’s what I want you young adults to understand first. Put themselves in fast forward 10 years, everyone listening. You’re now a manager. You’re interviewing for a key position. You interview five candidates. It comes down to two. They’re equally strong, you have one job, what’s going to make you pick one over the other? The one that you liked the better, the one that connected with you, the one you have more things in common with. So that’s the first thing and upfront that I need every young adult to understand.
Jeff Altman
Okay, super, number two.
Gene Rice
Number two is this. I’m going to ask your audience that coming out of college, Jeff, I’m going to ask your audience, if you had the answers to the to the test before you took the test, how much better would you do on the test? I think you do a heck of a lot better. What people don’t understand, especially young adults, Jeff, they go into an interview and they assume right away, that what they read on the job description, or what the recruiter told them they’re looking for, is what the company is looking for. Right? I’m sharing with you, they don’t understand how that’s put together. There’s someone in talent acquisition, there’s someone in human resources, that puts that job description together. They’re getting feedback from a bunch of different people, usually peers of the position, and they’re putting a job description together. Don’t assume, if you’re going in onyour interview, you’re going to interview with a direct boss, you’re going to interview usually with a peer, you’re going to interview usually with someone from HR/talent acquisition. And you might even interview with a senior level executive. I’m telling your audience, every one of those different people have a little bit of a different agenda or a different spin on what they’re looking for. So, I want to help them get the answers to the test. Now this is something they have to roleplay. So how do you do that? So upfront, after you establish that rapport, you establish that chemistry, you ask a very simple question. It’s got to be in your own words. It can be something like this. ‘Hey, Jeff, I was really excited about coming in and spending some time with you after I reviewed your website and what the company is all about. And I know we have a limited amount of time together. I really want to maximize that time. Would you share with me what’s most important in the background of the candidate that you’re looking to bring in to do this role for the XYZ company’ and shut up. The first two or three things that that person shares with you, that is the most important things to that person. Your responsibility is before that interview ends to share with them how you match to their criteria. That’s the second thing, get the answers to the test.
Figuring Out The Career To Pursue While in School
Jeff Altman
And I’m going to chime in here with my own experience of this because I coach people the same way at all levels. And when I say to folks, because HR people laugh when I say this, job descriptions are best 80% accurate. And a couple have said, ‘if we’re lucky,’ because the way most of them are generated is it’s Friday afternoon and Gene just gave notice. So the hiring manager calls over to HR and goes ‘you got the job description we used to hire Gene? Yeah, he just gave notice. So maybe you could get it out to our resources, put it up on the website, post it on wherever and see who you can get on my calendar on Tuesday’ because no one ever updates these things, especially for positions like yours, folks. So the result winds up being you have a job description. You don’t know where the emphasis is. So what Gene is telling you is absolute gold. Asking the question before they started saying, ‘So tell me about what you’ve been doing professionally.’ You got to ask the question first so you know what you’re aiming for, you know what the target is? Absolutely. And everyone has a different spin on it.
Gene Rice
Right? Everyone, everyone. So that’s, that’s step number two. Now, step number three, you have to be prepared to answer their questions appropriately. And then you also have to be able to ask questions at some point in the interview. They’re gonna say, ‘Do you have any questions for us? Right?’ So let me start with how you answer their questions. And I’m a firm believer in and tell your audience do some research. Most companies are using this or a form of this. But even if they’re not if they prepare this way, all right, they’re going to be really prepared to answer the questions correctly, I believe in a behavior based interviewing approach,
Jeff Altman
And what’s that, Gene?
Gene Rice
So and here’s what the audience needs to understand people were making hiring decisions from their gut. And then finally, all these CEOs got together and said, ‘Wait a second. This is what’s keeping us up at night making bad hiring decisions. How do we get a more proven process? Right? So a bunch of PhD in industrial organizational psychologists came up with a methodology. And what came out of their research was the greatest indicator to predict future success is to study past experience. So they’re going to identify the skills that they need in this position. They’re going to identify the skills they need and then they’re going to ask very specific questions to see if anywhere in your background if you demonstrated proficiency in that skill, because the research shows, if you demonstrated proficiency in the skill they need previously, the chances of you being proficient for them is above 94%. If you’ve never demonstrated proficiency in the skill they need, it is a crapshoot. Who knows whether you can or you can’t, and they’re gonna lean towards another candidate. So what can the young adults do, right? You don’t have much job experience. Maybe you have an internship. Maybe you had a part time job, but they’re going to ask things around teamwork, initiative. Collaborations, maybe presentation skills, right? They’re going to ask you if you’ve ever dealt with difficulty, you know, in the past, you know, have you ever dealt with somebody that you was really hard to get along with and how did you deal with that?
Jeff Altman
And you know, folks, the correct answer, although it may be yes, shouldn’t end there.
Gene Rice
So, and here’s where I want to tell your audience. So if you’re interviewing with a company, you can Google. If they use a behavior based interviewing approach, you’ll probably find something online. You might even find some of the questions that they ask. Now, here’s what I’m going to tell you. There’s a certain way to prepare to answer those questions. I had a client of mine, Jeff called DDI. They use the thing called the STAR response, S T A R. Right. So what did the S T stands for? STAR Here’s the situation. The A in star stands for based on the situation, here’s the action that Jeff took. And then based on the situation, the action that Jeff took, the R is here’s the result, situation, action results. If the audience can answer responses like this, right, situation, action and response. So let me give you an example. Have you ever had to work with a team to finish a project on time, and one of the one of the members wasn’t pulling their weight? How did you handle that? Okay, that’s the situation. Okay. situation was, I was given an assignment in school. I was one of three people that had to complete this project and present it to the class and the professor. It was worth 50% of the grade. Me and another one of the individuals, we broke it into three different segments. We each had a responsibility. I completed mine, another one of the teammates completed, there’s the third person hadn’t even started. We came to the conclusion that he was going to hold us up. He may not even get it done. We scheduled a meeting with them. We sat down with him and we said, ‘what can we do to help?’ And the three of us collaborated, we gave him a game plan. He committed to a timeframe. Got it back to us. We turned it in and the result was we got an A minus in the paper. Okay, so situation action result. Here’s where young adults make mistakes. Sometimes when they’re asked a behavior based question, Jeff, they’ll go off and say we did this. We did that. When they’re asking you a behavior based question. Can you give me a time . . . Was there ever a situation where . . . They’re looking for your individual contribution? It’s okay to say this is what I did. This was my input. They’re looking for what you did. What your situation action result was. So be specific,. The other place that young adults go astray, they may not have a good example, they might not have an answer. So they try to make something up and they wing it. My suggestion in that situation is simply say, That’s a great question. Could we come back to that, because I want to think about it a little bit more. And my experience has been Jeff, the interviewer will go on and ask another question, and come back to it at the end, which might give you some time to think about a better response. So that’s behavior based questions.
Jeff Altman
That’s a great dance for you folks to learn. No matter what level of experience, you have to get by yourself a little bit of time, rather than making it up.
Launch Your Career. Get Ahead.
Gene Rice
Yes, yeah. Now, that’s how you that’s how I would mentor people to answer the questions. Now, there’s going to come a time in the interview, where the interviewer is going to say to you, do you have any questions for us? Now, here’s what I want to tell you. It’s imperative to ask win-win questions, especially early on. I don’t want you to take any job without all your questions being addressed. But there’s a time and a place. Okay. There’s a time and a place. Let me give you an example. I was prepping, my son had a very good friend coming out of Penn State, engineering degree 3.4 GPA. And if you met him, Jeff, he looked like he walked out a GQ magazine. He had nine interviews, and he was 0-9. My son called me and said, ‘Dad, would you work with him. Would you try to help him? I said, Sure. So I asked him to walk me through the last couple of interviews, right, because a kid coming out of Penn State with an engineering degree and that GPA, he should have been five or six for nine, he should have multiple offers. And he took me through. He asked, one of the last interviews, he asked, i mean he had done his homework, he had done his research, and he said in the first interview, ‘hey, I noticed your stock price has been going down. Can you explain why that is?’ Listen, great question. But not the time. Okay. He asked someone else in a previous interview, he did research and the CEO was being brought up on charges of sexual harassment. He asked, ‘how is that going?’ Right? So people that are interviewing, they’re thinking, this guy doesn’t even want my job, right? So you have to ask a win-win question. What is a win win question? Okay. Let me give you some examples of some win-win questions? Okay. You know, if I come in here, and I do a phenomenal job. Take me through what my career path might look like. Okay? Is there anything . . . If you’re at the, if you’re at the company’s holiday party, and you’re talking to your boss, and you make a statement to your boss that I was the best hire you ever made? What would I have had to accomplish in the first year to make you make a statement like that? Is there anything that I can be doing before I start, that might give me a head start so I can come in and add value faster? Okay, these are Win Win questions. Now, I want to tell your audience, if they go to the website, gradtogrownup.com
Jeff Altman
Is it the number 2, or the word to,
Gene Rice
it’s GradtoGrown up.com. They can download win-win questions for free. Just download this like 10 questions here. So I want you to ask win-win questions upfront. Your role, a young adult’s job, if you’re going to take the time to interview, what I’m going to say to you, you have one one goal and one goal only– to get the offer. Whether you accept the offer or not, that’s up to you. But I want you to be in the driver’s seat, not the company. Okay, so at the end, once you get the offer, any questions or concerns you have? I’m going to make sure you get those addressed before you say yes or no. So that’s step three. Upfront, know how to ask the question, answer the questions professionally and know what questions you should ask. And one last thing on questions, Jeff,. It’s okay for them to write the questions down in a notepad before they go in. And when they asked them, ‘Do you have any questions for me?’ Yes, as a matter of fact, I wrote some down. Do you mind if I take my notebook out?’ They will like that. That will show initiative and you can read the questions that you wrote down. Okay,
Jeff Altman
Notebooks? That’s an antique iPad, by the way. For those of you who don’t know what a notebook is.
Jeff Altman
Number five.
Gene Rice
(Laughter) Yes, so that’s step three. There’s five steps, okay. Now here’s step four. Here’s the one thing I want to tell your young audience. Okay? Anyone who does any type of interviewing, always has some sort of concerns about the person they’re interviewing. Sometimes the concern is, the person is overqualified. Sometimes the concern is the person is under qualified. The only time I ever got concerned, Jeff, as an executive recruiter, was when there was no concerns because the concerns are the buying signals. Right now, you’re young adults. Accept that fact. Don’t take it personal. But you have to understand if there’s any concerns before you leave that entity. So how do you do that? How do you ask that question? So you can get a chance to, if the concern is false, to address it, and overcome it and get agreement it’s no longer a concern. But if the concern is real, Jeff, to maximize your other skills, right? And talk about what you bring to the table. So how do you ask that? And these are things that they’re going to have to roleplay. So, take this interview and go back at the end of the interview. Here’s, here’s how I want you to address it. If you feel this way, it’s perfectly okay to say ‘I was really interested about coming in and meeting with you. After I did my, my research on the company, after spending time with you, Jeff, I can tell you my interest has gone up. And here’s why. And based on what you told me, Jeff, you were looking for in this position, I think I can really add value and here’s why. Do you have any concerns that I can come into the ABC Company and add value in this role?’ And shut up? And if the concern is real, hey, your audience. I’m completely bald. All right. If if the concern is is real, I need somebody with hair, alright, I can’t grow hair. Listen, here’s how you answer it. ‘I can understand why you know, you know, I do not have any hair, I can’t bring that to the table. But what I can bring to the table, I promise you, nobody will be in your office earlier, no one will work later, no one will be a better teammate. Nobody will be more loyal to this firm. And if given the opportunity, I promise you, you will not regret this decision. Even though I don’t have any hair.’ You come back strong. And you talk about the things you bring to the table. Okay. Now, if the concern is false, you have to go back and address that. ‘I understand why you might feel that way because we haven’t had an opportunity to talk about that. But I’d like to give you some experience that I have in that area.’ All right, and take them through it specifically and at the end say ‘does that make you feel better about that concern?’ Okay. So but I don’t want you how many people this is senior executive, young adults, they leave an interview, they think they did great. How did it go? It went great. Did they have any concerns? Now? It was going so well, I didn’t even ask the question. Right? I can’t tell you how many times there was minor concerns that if the candidate had asked he would have addressed it, and they would add an offer, and then because that minor concern, didn’t get addressed, they went with somebody else. So you have to understand that there is going to be concerns, you have to ask that question and you have to address it. Okay, that’s step number four. Okay, number five.
Gene Rice
You’ve got to close for the next step. I don’t want anyone leaving an interview and not knowing what the next step is. Okay.
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Jeff Altman
And when when they might hear back about the next step.
Jeff Altman
Absolutely. So let me share with you how do you get that? And if this is going on, It’s okay. A lot of young adults are interviewing multiple places. If you’re at the end of an interview, okay, and you really think this is my number one choice. But there’s another company that you’re interviewing with, it’s moving along in a process. It’s perfectly professionally to say, ‘I want to tell you just how interested I am in this opportunity. My final question for you is, I’ve been interviewing with another company who’s been moving me along very quickly, and they’ve told me that they’re ready to make a decision after this final interview. I don’t want to make any decisions until I know where I stand with you because I’m telling you right now you are my number one choice. Can you walk me through the next steps in the timeframe so I can professionally handle this other opportunity?’ And I’m going to tell you, if they are interested in you. They are going to tell you the next steps. They are going to outline the next steps. They’re going to tell you who you have to meet with or they’re going to be honest with you and say ‘listen, I met with you. You’re the first candidate. We have four more interviews. We’re really interested, but I won’t know until after those first interviews are over. That’s acceptable too. But I want you to leave knowing what the next step is and timeframes. Okay? So that’s the fifth step. Now, I don’t consider this one of the five steps. But at the end of this within 24 hours, I want you to get a business card from everyone you have met with. I want you to follow up within 24 hours, and I want that follow up to be as personal as you can. Meaning, ‘Hey, Jeff, I really enjoyed the time that we spent together. And I know you’re a Yankee fan, and I actually watched part of the game last night. All right, what did Aaron Judge do, man. That was some shot. I want you to know, again, I am so excited about your opportunity. And here’s why I believe I can really add value. And here’s why. I am I just wanted to thank you for your time. And I hope to hear back from you shortly. Something like that. Everyone gets that, okay, 24 hours. And that’s how I prepare them for an interview, Jeff.
Gene Rice
When I work with with executive candidates, I kind of walk them through a similar process. I’ve got some nuance differences, but they’re a different audience, obviously, than someone who’s starting out. So I prep people a little bit differently, because that’s who I tend to work with more often. No matter, folks, this is homerun stuff that’s going to advantage you in the course of the conversations with firms that are hiring, because most of the competition is going to act like amateurs, right?
Gene Rice
And yes, I started off like this. I want your audience to become a grandmaster. And they didn’t teach this skill in college. This skill is critical because the job that you want, you’re going to be competing with four or five other candidates. The one who’s the Grandmaster, you can get these five steps down and also the upfront and how you follow up. Roleplay this. How you ask that question, to get the answers for the test. You got to roleplay in front of a mirror. You don’t go in first time. How you ask that question at the end about any concerns. . . You got to roleplay. You got to use your own verbiage, right? That’s how I would ask it, but everyone else can ask it differently. I just want when they leave that interview, I want them to ask themselves five questions that I established before. How do they do that? Did I get the answers to the test? Did I go back and share with them how I matched to it? Did I ask really good Win Win questions that I answered their questions from a behavior based approach using the STAR method? Did I ask them about any concerns and did I address them? And did I close for the next step and understand that I want when they walk out in their car or in their office to answer those five questions. Okay. And and here’s what I want them to do during the interviewing process, if I can, Jeff. I ask them upfront, I want you to identify the reasons why you’re interested in this company. After every interview, I want you to go back and ask yourself, put it into your notes, did these reasons hold true? Did any new reasons surface? What questions do I need to have addressed before I’m ready to say yes or no to this opportunity? At the end of an interviewing process, if you meet three, four or five people, if you don’t have 11, 12, 13 reasons why you’re interested, it may not be the right place for you. And here’s some other things, Jeff. I want to just maybe there’s three things that I want to tell young adults that they need to look for. And this is where some of them miss it. Before they say yes to an offer. I want them to answer these questions. Number one, can I go into this company and add value? How am I going to do that? Do I know what my role is? And do I feel I can really help in some way? Number two, have they shared with me how I’m going to grow professionally in this role? How am I going to get better at my craft and my skill? Am I going to grow? Or is it just gonna be me giving, giving giving? That won’t work. You’re gonna be unhappy. You gotta grow professionally as well as be able to add value. And the third reason I’m going to tell your audience Jeff, if the first two reasons are there, but number three is not, this is not the right place for them. You need to respect and like your direct boss enough and the people you’re going to be working closely with. You have to respect them and like them enough that if you had to go out to a business dinner, you wouldn’t dread going. Because if you don’t like your boss, if he’s going to be a micromanager or the manager, he’s not going to help you grow. You’re going to be unhappy very quickly and you’re gonna look for a new job. So the young adults, where they miss it, is they don’t spend enough time with that direct boss. They don’t spend enough time meeting with the direct boss’ direct reports to ask about them, to ask about the boss. Will you tell me about it. What do you like about it? You know? How does he has he helped you in your career. You have to make a connection. Okay? And because that young adult, that direct voice could be a mentor could be a reference for the rest of your career, if it’s the right person.
Jeff Altman
Also say, folks, it’s kind of like in dating. Once you start meeting the friends, the friends start telling you a lot of stuff about the people that you’re dating. And that stuff is really, really useful. Don’t hesitate along the way, to start talking with the staff people that you’re interviewing with. ‘hey, what are they really like? What do you like about them? What kind of frustrates you a little bit because everything . . . there’s always something.’ You put it as dramatically as that. There’s always something. That something could be the deal breaker for you. So flush it out. And Gene, this has been fabulous. How can people find out more about you, the book that you’re doing? The book, sorry. So blurry, I got the blur function on Zoom.
Gene Rice
Everything we spoke about is outlined, right? It’s one of the 68 tips. So each one of those five steps is a different tip. It goes into greater detail, right? The book came out I think I told you an Amazon about six weeks ago, Jeff, as the number one job interviewing book in the world, which blew me away because I didn’t write the book that way. But you can go to the book can be purchased anywhere. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Walmart, you know, Target, whatever you want. But you can go to the website gradtogrownup.com. You can read about it. You can read reviews, you can download some free chapters. I think I shared this with you, Jeff. Any financial rewards that come from this book are being donated by the publisher directly to the charity. I started with my wife, right? Planted Seed Inspire a Dream Foundation, which has helped over 800 kids come from financially challenged families pursue their passions, right? It’s going directly to them. I want to tell your audience, you might have some young adults who financially can’t afford this book, but really need some of the 68 tips. If they go to the website and they send me an email. I’ll send them the book for free.
Jeff Altman
Very sweet, Gene. Thank you. And folks, we’ll be back soon with more. I’m Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter. I hope you enjoyed this interview. If you’re watching on YouTube, give it a thumbs up, share it, do something, something if you listen to this as a podcast, do something that lets people know it was worthwhile. I also want to mention my website TheBigGameHunter.us has a ton in the blog that will help you. Go to the site; go exploring. Like I said there’s a lot there that will help you. And last, connect with me on Linkedin at linkedin.com/in/TheBigGameHunter. Have a terrific day and most importantly, be great. Take care.
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ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with over 2300 episodes.
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