In this interview with Craig DiVizzio we discuss how to get the job his way!

Craig’s book, “I Got the Job: Interview Mastery for the Modern Workplace” is available on Amazon at https://amzn.to/2Pn4i8e

I GOT THE JOB!

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So my guest today is Craig DiVizzio. He's the president of DiVizzio International, with offices in Atlanta and Birmingham. He's the author of a recently released book, “I Got the Job.” It's also the titlisteners read here is exciting news him and is is is le of an online course that he has on interviewing by the same name. Craig thanks for making time today, welcome.

, thank you very much for being on your show, it's a pleasure and it’s an honor.

Thank you and you know, when I listened or read your background, and we first had the conversation, before the show, the question became, how did you get into this? Like, how did you become interested in interviewing people and how to did you do it well?

Once I finished my bachelor's in psychology and my Master's in counseling, my first job, was to run a Career Center at a college. So, I was starting with students doing assessments on them to make sure that they were moving in the right direction. Also teaching them how to interview, how to write a resume and how to network to get their first job once they got out of school. From that when I quit the college, I started working for one of the three largest career consulting companies in the world, and out of the Atlanta Office, and they sent me all over the nation teaching people how to interview, I did that for six years. Some of the companies they sent me into said, Craig, we love your teaching style. Have you ever thought about teaching your own material? And so, that kind of got me thinking, , should I start my own business and eventually I made that shift, have been in business now for 32 years and interviewing has been my most popular course during that time.

It's interesting, you went into companies to teach them interviewing. So what kind of companies were they? Were you teaching them how to evaluate people to hire, or was it where they outsourcing firms, or outplacement firms?

It was an outplacement firm and so for six years, everybody that I had in one of my classes, had just been downsized, right size, reengineered, reorganized, whatever you call it, through no fault of their own, they had lost the job very similar to the millions of people that we have out there today, who through no fault of their own, because of the pandemic are looking for other work and so, I did it that way, with the outplacement firm and when I started my own company, it was a matter of the companies I was working in investing in the people that they wanted to move up in the company, because a lot of those people, prospective managers maybe did an interview well, we really want you in leadership. So, let Craig teach you how to interview so that then you'll be successful and we'll get you into those leadership roles. So, it wasn't a matter of teaching them to go outside of the company, but to move up promotion wise inside the company.

And thus the kind of people you've worked with over the years but where do they fit organizationally, how junior, how senior are they?

Yeah, the number one corporate people, skilled laborers, I've covered the base on all of those starting out with the teenager. In terms of the book, and the online courses that are appropriate for a teenager preparing for their first interview, to get their first job, all the way up to if we go into a corporation, the vice presidential level down and inclusive, they're not higher than that because once you get into the C suite, you know this, , interviewing changes dramatically.

Big time, big time changes. You know, one of the things I tend to focus on is the importance of connecting with interviewers that it's one of those things that job Hunters forget to do. They kind of go into this thing and they've got their mental script of things they're going to cover and they know the answer is basic questions but they forget the human side, is that what you see as well?

To me, that is one of the differences in my material, from a lot of material that I see out there. I see a lot of people teaching how to answer the questions and I agree with you, to me, interviewing is much more about making a personal connection with the interviewer than it is just about answering the questions in the correct way. You can have the perfect answer and still not get hired in an interview. What are all the nuances about making that connection to be seen as honest, genuine, and sincere? Do they like you? Did they feel you're going to be good to work with? All of those things, I believe has as big an impact and probably even more impact than just having great answers. Of course, great answers are important too but it's the combination of those and I think that's the key.

One of the things I tell people is competence is only one variable that firms look for and folks you got to believe there are a lot of competent people who can do this job, just like you so, how do they choose you? And part of that is, ultimately you get to the point where they trust you and part of the reason they trust you is they connect with you.

Right

So, how do we have them get connected?

Well, you know, I talked a little bit about, let's say, in about everybody's material, you will hear them say, do your research on who is going to be your interviewer, or on your panel? And then they kind of leave it to you to go, what do I do with this information? I say, as you do your research, not only find it, but then look for commonalities that you have with the interviewer and then I want you to share in the interview, that you have that commonality. Now, why is that the case? So, here goes back to my psychology counseling background, we're pulling on human nature, we tend to like people more who we have things in common with. But I can't just say , hey like me more, because you live in the Appalachian Mountains and I did that for 10 years also because that doesn't have anything to do with the job. So, we've got to find out what we have in common with the interviewers, and then we've got to communicate that in the interview. But, we've got to make it relevant to how we're going to be a better employee. So, I can go on and say, well, being in the mountains, when you run your own business, there's a lot of stress and boy, there's no better place than taking a walk in the mountains and everything. So, the fact that I live in the mountains, and I walk in the mountains makes me better because I can relax when I need to so I can come back to work and put in the energy and what I've actually done is connected with you and let you go boy, I like that guy because we've got something in common and he also shared a point that was valuable in terms of my hiring him.

And folks, in case you don't know it, I live in western North Carolina. I'm in the town of Asheville, and he described my background or my location very well and when I get stressed, well during COVID times, I think, take a walk in the mountains, or we get on the elliptical, but before then I would do that. So, the idea is number one to find something in common, and kind of incorporate it into an answer, is it that I interpret that correctly?

Yeah, I tell people in class, if you work hard enough, you can make almost any commonality, something that you can then apply to the job and so I want to say one that I use from time to time, if I'm interviewing and I know that somebody rides motorcycles, I will simply say, well, , I know that you'll understand this because you ride motorcycles and so now I've got them, they are with me in the answer. They're processing the answer with me, as opposed to just listening as a stranger or somebody who's not in tune with what I'm saying and then I talked about how riding a motorcycle is one place where I can distance myself from my business to relax when I come in. So, yes, find the commonality, share it, you don't tell them, although the behind the scenes is, I'm sharing this with you, because I want to capitalize on the human nature part that you will like me more, because we have this in common, but then you make it relevant.

And if I were to flip this ever so slightly, might you say something along the lines of, hey, I don't know if this is true for you but when I ride my bike, I'm looking to get relaxed and focused on what my next problem is and thus, at times, when I ride, it's a great place to clear my head. So, I can go in with intensity next.

Absolutely, whatever you can do to connect with the interviewer while you're delivering the answer so that they are following along with you and maybe even thinking as you're saying the words. Yeah, that's the same way it works for me, now they're with you in the answer as opposed to just a bystander to it.

Yeah, a real subtle thing is when people get hooked, and partners are using the phrase I do, I know how it is for you but when you're up more, I ride my bike. The next thing they're going to want to do is since they do it, they're going to follow and track the next statement. Then next part of the statement becomes really important. So, you connect the dots for them in some human way.

And they're personalizing it. They're personalized opposed to seeing it as something you're doing. Now, the two of you collectively are kind of going through it together.

Yes, bingo. I like that one, it's a sweet one. What else can people do to kind of connect with the interviewer?

You know, I talk a lot about understanding why to do things and when you understand why you're doing something, then everything that you're doing takes on a different level of significance for you. For instance, people will say, make a good first impression okay, and they'll say, and I don't know why I'm supposed to necessarily, but I know they told me to do it is what a lot of people do and they'll say, well do a firm handshake and make eye contact, and call people's names, all these things. Although they're like, literal line items, they are extremely important. Everybody likes hearing their name, everybody likes when you're shaking their hand not to be in such a hurry to get to the next interviewer that you're talking to them and you're already moving over here, but that you maintain eye contact with them and so what I explain what's the 'why' of this, why is this so darn important? When you create a great first impression, if the beginning of an interview, we'd like to trust our impressions, if you meet somebody and you like them, and you don't know why, but you like them and then later on, you find out some disturbing news about them, you don't want to believe it, there's a resistance there. So, if you make a good first impression on an interviewer, they will want to be right, they will want their final impression, to match their first impression, at the end of the interview, they're going to want to say see, I knew it, I knew they were good, well, how that happens is they will start looking for things during your interview, to say that there's another positive and those will be magnified, while the mistakes that you make will be diminished. So it's a matter of understanding all of the small little things that you do while you're doing it, and the effect that creates with the person and if you didn't know that calling somebody's name will wake them up. I can tell people, if somebody is not paying attention to you, you know, their writing notes and everything and you want to make some eye contact, just call their name, and they will pop their head up immediately. Some of these really small things a lot of people hear from , I believe it goes out the other ear, they don't prepare enough so that they know their answers in and out and now they can focus on this connection stuff.

And your preparation is one of the big mistakes. Now, you've been talking about in person interviews. I remember what those were like and hopefully we'll have them again soon. So the idea of, you know, when you're meeting someone, you got the firm handshake and making the eye contact, you're not rushing off to the next person, while you're doing the handshake and the eye contact, you're holding it for a beat, before you're switching off to the next person. But now we're in the days of video and I get the idea that with video on a one on one, like on zoom, you've got speaker view, and you're always making sure you're on speaker view because with gallery view, you're always looking to the side to the other person and not making eye contact. In speaker view, you're actually looking at the person we're recording this over zoom and I know I've got him on speaker view. So we're making eye contact. Curious about panel interviews, whether you have an opinion about how to do that with a...

Yeah, I appreciate the question, because I talk a lot about panel interviews, people are intimidated. The first thing I would say just as an aside is you got to know what's going to happen the day of your interview, you've got to know how many people are there to expect one interviewer and walk into a panel of 10 people, it can throw you and you may not even recover before the interview is over. But the same thing exists with one on one in a panel interview, the proper way to answer a question is of course you are looking at the person who asked you the question, you had their name at the tip of your tongue. So, as soon as the question is over, you say, well, , thank you for that and then you answer the question and as you're answering a question, now you are not going from person number one, person number two to person number three, person number four, but you're moving around for maybe one to three to two to four, you're shifting your eye contact should be three to four seconds per person, because if I'm just bouncing around now it's looking like I got all kinds of issues, anxiety issues, whatever, and you don't want to stare too long at somebody and then you want to finish your eye contact back on the person who asked you the question and clearly indicate that you are finished with your answer by nodding your head and saying thank you and then they know to move on and so this is really easily structured, but people just haven't gotten into it enough and so, if I can go on just one more second, the biggest mistake that I see people making in a panel interview, and pretty much because they don't really know any different is they give all of their eye contact to the person who asked the question, and they're ignoring everyone else, that is a good reason for these people to tune out and not even like you, you've got to be making eye contact with them and even as I'm going through the thing, Bob, you know, this is, and I'm going further in the answer in jail, you know, this, and I may use three or four names in one answer, making eye contact with them connecting with their name, that type of stuff is so valuable. People want to feel, the interviewers want to feel there was a point in time, , where you were talking to me, not to the whole panel, you were talking directly to me and that's the way you do, it's very simple. But you got to build it in into your preparation and practice it.

Folks, if you've ever watched a TV news show with a panel, or one of those panel shows where they asked one person a question, and it's done live with someone in the studio, what you'll see is the person talks to each individual person there, you might also see it on the late night shows where the guests finally makes it over to the couch and is talking to the other guests and they're moving from person to person to literally zero back in on the host. But, they'll look at the person to their right on the couch and they'll eventually connect with the audience who's there, who they're going to get the last lines from. So, it's that same idea of moving from place to place, except in their cases without the names being mentioned.

Right, yeah, I think going back to our original point, this connecting with the interviewer and how, if we add a percentage, how big of a percentage that is in the final hiring decision? I really believe most people believe that it is less and I really believe that it's a pretty big deal.

I do as well, because the mechanics are easy. You can learn the answers to questions, even those about your field of expertise. A couple of interviews, you notice everyone's asking you pretty predictable questions and from rehearsal answers, but the behavior that creates the connection that allows them to trust you and dare I say even like you, versus all the people who arrive in and keep their armor up, and are rigid and stiff and act like little interview robots, it's unusual. So, by all means, this is how you stand out from the others is your connection with the interviewers.

Yeah and I believe that one of the reasons people, even if they know to do it, don't do it as well as they would like , is because it's hard to do all of that, if you're trying to remember your answer. So this all goes back to the fact you were not well enough prepared with your answers so that you didn't really focus. They were kind of just coming out. I was doing and attending to all these other things and the answer was just coming out because I knew it so well. Now what level of preparation does it take to get there? That's where most people unfortunately haven't gotten yet and hopefully with more shows like this, people will get the point and they'll start preparing more.

Folks, you got to prepare because when you think about it, every great athlete in the world practices, right? And every great entertainer in the world versus and job hunters go out on interviews and first time the words ever come out of their mouth with the interview and they wonder why they flub the answers, or they walk out and go dang, I wish I'd said this because you weren't prepared.

You don't get a second chance; this is a one shot deal. I tell people all the time, your objective is to walk out of that interview having delivered everything that you want that interviewer to hear. That is your job, interviews to me are much more about what the interviewee wants to tell the interviewer then it ever is what the interviewer wants to know. You've got to find a way to use their questions to deliver the answers you want them to know in the first place.

What else can people do to connect with each other? By the way let me back up for a second. Panel interviews over video, yeah, let's say there are three people on the screen and do you do speaker view? Do you do gallery view? Even though you may wind up talking to this person? How do you do that on video, do you have an opinion?

I have not gotten into that yet, to be honest with you. That's not something this is, in the book, I talk a lot about all of the virtual interviews, and that people have now but I have not gotten into all of the different screen arrangements, so to speak, in terms of what the best way is. So, that would not be something that I can help you with. I don't know, I would expect that without having tested all of them, that there are ones that you will prefer, and whatever you prefer, in terms of your comfort level, where you are still doing the same connecting with all of the different interviewers, that's the one that you use. But again, I'm speaking from lack of knowledge about that. So I'll defer on that question to the experts.

And I'm going to experiment within the next couple of days, folks, and maybe I'll do an interview about the video about that as well. Now coming back here, what else can people do to connect, we've got mentioning name, it's researching and sliding some of the research in eye contact, you know, doing the stuff with holding people's gaze, in the in person interview, what are the sorts of things do people need to do?

I'll tell you one that happens way prior to the interview, my blanket statement to everyone is, you need to do your absolute best to connect in some way with the hiring manager, before you ever get to an interview, you need to talk to them one on one. Number one, you are finding out a lot about them based on where they want to go with this, but you're the interviewer where they want to go with their answers what they're going to talk about. But you also find that do you even like them, just because the job is the perfect job of your choice doesn't mean you're going to enjoy working with that particular manager and you know, as well as I do, the number one reason that people quit jobs is because they didn't get along with their manager. So we've got to find a way to connect with the manager, before you ever get into the interview. I want this to be, you know, good old reunion time when I get sitting in front of somebody or even seeing them on a screen through for a formal interview, one of connecting with them, and in that you are the interviewer. So, you've got to have questions prepared and your questions need to be related to what does that manager like? What are they looking for? How do they view the job? Those types of things, and to keep it short, I always say to people, you know, can I have, you know, 10 or 15 minutes of your time or sometimes even five minutes, and then you can get on the phone, you can talk for 15 minutes. But if you're not making an attempt to connect with the interview, before the interview, or the hiring manager before the interview, you're making a huge mistake because even if you can't connect with them, even if it's an email, something, anything, it's a matter of a dialogue between the two of you and you will separate yourself. You mentioned this a little while ago, , you're going to separate yourself from your competition by doing so because so few people do it. So, that's one very easy way to not only connect with somebody, but also to have a leg up on your competition, you did something and you position this as I want to make sure this is the right job for me that we are a good fit, that we're a good match. That's why I'm doing this because I don't want to come to this interview if it's not good for you or I.

And what questions would you recommend someone ask during that conversation? And folks, I would suggest, instead of saying 5 or 10, I'm a believer in odd numbers, because it kind of makes people like me was this five minutes or 10 minutes. But if you say I get seven or eight minutes with you, is a different response, when you say seven or eight minutes, but...

There are companies that I work in that inside their grounds, their speed limit is seven miles an hour, 12 miles, something that's odd. So, I'll defer to you on that point, I agree with that.

It just makes people think versus being on autopilot because if someone says five minutes, my first reaction is to push back a little bit. 10 minutes push back, seven or eight, my attention has gotten piqued. Just a little bit different and what do you ask during that time? I'm sorry,

I'm going to ask an interviewer, I will tell them, I read the job description. I've read about the company, whatever, I'd like your view of how you view this job? What specific capabilities, abilities, talents, and temperaments you're looking for in a candidate? What are the rigors of this job? What is it going to demand of me? Is there anything that you know, that is not in the job description in terms of the way I would spend my time? Those types of things, I just want to hear the manager talk about the type of person that they're looking for and how they describe the job, which sometimes , you know, this is completely different than the job description and that's one of the reasons in addition to making the connection, that you make the phone call, you need to find that out in advance, you don't need to find that out when you sit down and they go, well, let me tell you, the job description not really accurate, this is what we want you to do and you say to yourself, well shoot, if I had known that I wouldn't be here.

It's funny, I do that question I teach people do that question at the beginning of the interview because if you do it in advance, sometimes things change again. So, I'll have them arrive at the interview and if it's an in person has people lower their butt to the seat, they started talking and say, hey, thanks so much for making time to meet with me today, I really appreciate it. You know, I recall the position description, I want to get your take on the role, because you tell me about the job as you see it and what I can do to help and then you have the current roadmap for the thinking about the job at the beginning of the interview, instead of when people normally find out about it at the end of the interview, when they ask if you have any questions and they say...

Sometimes, my knowledge of how they squeeze these interviews in is they may not have allotted for that and so now the manager may not go into a lot of detail. Because it's going we don't really have time for that we're already behind interviewing people, and we don't so the other place that you can do that is and I often tell people to ask for this, when they're outside the room, you know, if there's an interview room, and you are sitting patiently outside, somebody, I call that person, the greeter, the greeter will come out and greet you and it could be HR, the hiring manager, or somebody on the panel, that's just their job today and so they'll say, do you have any questions, and so you can cover it out there also, and then it maybe wouldn't take so much time in the interview. But there's lots of ways, you know, as we're discussing, there's lots of ways to do this, the whole point is to do it, at some point with someone to make sure that you are crystal clear that this is the job you want. So, that you can say with exuberance, I know for a fact, this is the job that will capitalize on my strengths. This is a job where I can give back and contribute to this company and you can say that with the energy that they want to hear.

Excellent, we only have a few more minutes left, because we didn't really roll in nicely here, what else should we cover in the way of how people can connect?

Well, I you got me on that one because I'm thinking of some other questions that I was prepared for and so in terms of other ways to connect to the interviewers? Yeah again, it comes down, in a way, , to me to some of the really small things that are important that people don't do and I don't know what why they don't do them sometimes they don't have it on their checklist of things to do. At the end of the interview this is connecting after the interview is over but probably prior to when they make a decision. Now, you're not necessarily doing this to influence their decision but maybe in some ways it does before you leave the building, before you go back to work before you get to your car, you should be putting, you either write a note at that point in time, or you place a pre written note somewhere where that interviewer is going to find it immediately after they get back to their office and this is the cordiality that is to me expected it used to happen all the time. hey, , thank you very much for the opportunity to interview I found this to be helpful blah, blah, blah, and sign your name a short little bit. Now, you're connecting with the interview in one more way saying I don't know how I did in the interview but thank you very much for my shot at the title. These are the things that I don't understand why people don't do these. There are so important and we've got it an email is too easy to do, it is too easy to do. Okay, so I always tell people handwritten note, if it's not a handwritten note, it's a typed letter but it's something that you deliver on the spot or you send something in the mail through their mail courier or something like that an email is too easy to do and because it's so easy to do, it's not valued that much. So, the more effort you put into it, the more it will be valued by somebody.

And with each person you meet, for example, a panel interview; you send it to all the panelists. Now, as you're saying, goodbye, so you have to have a card with you?

At least, the hiring manager and the HR person at a minimum, if you happen to have both of those people there at a minimum, those two and you may do it to some of the other people also, it's just a nice gesture, you know, this lack of civility that we've gotten into being kind courteous, saying, thank you appreciating, I don't know where it's gone. But it certainly will serve you well, in an interview. You notice they will thank you. Thank you for the question. The first thing out of the person's mouth that I say when they say tell me a little bit about yourself should be the first thing I'd like to say is thank you very much for this opportunity today. It is an honor to be here, oh, I get it and then you go into but you want to say thank you first, a lot of people miss that and it's like, how can you not, they did not have to pick you for this interview, they selected you for that alone, you should be saying thank you. These are small things, but people don't do them and right there is your connection, man.

Not only that when firms are making decisions, and they've got two people in mind, one of the potential tiebreakers is an expression of interest. So, the person who plays a little bit cool and doesn't say anything or do anything and the person who's, you know, thankful, appreciative, and gives the impression that they're really interested, that one has an advantage and by the way, where did it go? It still exists in the southern part of the country doesn't exist in the northern and western parts of the country very often.

I don't know, yeah, if it's the end of the interview, I tell people, you need to express an interest in the job, or ask for the job. You know, this is your job I am well prepared for and I would appreciate you honoring me with this, I would love to be a part of your team. You've got to, if I was doing this, I'd say I want your people, to the listeners out there to buy the book, why would I not say that? You know, if you don't feel good enough about yourself and what you're presenting to ask for something, then that's really communicating a lot about how you feel about yourself

Absolutely, this has been terrific. Time has gone by quickly, how can people find out more about you, the book, I've got a pre-release copy folks and I'll just simply say, get to know you better.

Every participant that comes into one of my classes, I make them a promise. I say regardless, whatever level you come into this class with, you are going to learn something new and you're going to exit better prepared for your next interview. The book and as those people exit, I'm amazed the number of people that say to me, hey, Craig, I didn't realize there were so much more I could learn about interviewing and I thought I knew a lot already. , the book and the online course had even more information than what I teach in class that got me those comments. Both the book and the online course are titled 'I got the job', the book you can find on Amazon. The online course is located on talent LMS and the easiest way to get to both of those is to go to my blog, perspectives.craigdivizzio.com. If your listeners want to interview better than they ever had before, I'm asking them to check those two items out, it will be worth their time.

Could you spell your last name even though it's going to be in the show notes everywhere, Craig spell your last name?

It is D I V as in Victor I Z Z I O and of course you can find me on YouTube. You can go to CraigdiVizzio,com my website. I'm on LinkedIn, Craigdivizzio on LinkedIn, DiVizziointernational on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram, I'm on Twitter, and I’m all over the place. Get the name right, you'll find me everywhere and I hope that you do.

I hope so as well and folks, we'll be back soon with more. I'm Alton the big game hunter. I hope you enjoyed today's interview with Craig, if you did and you're watching on YouTube. Now, click the like button, subscribe to the channel, do something that indicates that you found this worthwhile. I also want to suggest you visit my website, thebiggamehunter.us. Go to the blog, go explore, I've got 1000's of posts there that will help you; you can watch listen to or read them. It makes a difference for people. You can also schedule time for free discovery call with me at the website or ask me a question through the website or of course sign up for coaching. I'd love to help you however you do. Lastly, connect with me on LinkedIn @linkedin.com/Iam/thebiggamehunter. If you're not ready to go to my website, put the address in your phone for a time later on where you'd want to come over, okay? So, I hope you have a terrific day and most importantly, be great, take care.

ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER

JeffAltman, The Big Game Hunter
JeffAltman, The Big Game Hunter

Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, all as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with more than 1900 episodes, and is a member of The Forbes Coaches Council.

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