Build Your Dream Network | JobSearchTV.com

Build Your Dream Network | JobSearchTV.com

By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
Networking needs rebranding. It isn’t is hard, difficult, or certainly painful and it is critical to your personal and professional success. Kelly Hoey’s book, “Build Your Dream Network, shares powerful stories, and her own experience advice about how to be effective.

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So my guest today is Kelly Hoey, the author of build your dream network forging powerful relationships on hyper connected world. And by the way, if you didn’t notice, I’ve got little markers in there of things that we’ll cover, or I found interesting. Kelly believes that networking needs to rebrand and her book and presentations as well as her podcast, newsletter blog, you get the idea. She creates a lot of content. I look at networking through new modern fresh lenses offering young professionals, creatives, managers and entrepreneurs advice on how to connect for success in the social media age, because this isn’t just simply about job search. It’s about your career overall. Kelly, great to have you on. Thank you for making time.

Kelly 4:53

It’s so great to be here, Jeff, and thank you for reading my book and thank you for doing what I say write in the introduction, and like, how you should use this book, you know, crack the spine, turn over some pages, highlight, put some tabs in there. So I love it. I love seeing that. Thank you. You’re welcome.

Jeff 5:13

So you’re not someone who just went on Google and did a bunch of research that way, you’re someone who’s actually lived and breathed the lessons that you take out of just , holding up one more time?

How have you accumulated all this stuff? This knowledge, you know, what sort of lessons have you taken from all these transitions, the different careers? Are you a job hopper is that what’s been going on all these years.

Kelly 5:46

I am laughing because I like to say, when you write a book on networking, you’ve got to eat your own dog food, like I it would be really, you know, hollow guidance if I hadn’t lived and breathed and, and use this advice myself, which I have. So my first career was an attorney, I came out of law school back in 1991

Jeff 6:05

On behalf of all of his listeners and viewers, boo. Please continue.

Kelly 6:08

Oh, well, we can have that discussion another day on, you know, whether whether a law degree is a good good career is a good degree to have whether or not it’s the career someone wants to have. But I quickly realized when I started in, you know, off as a lawyer, that to be successful, you needed two things, you needed to be really good at your job, and you needed relationships, but they were in fundamental tension, because one of them required you to stay at your desk. And the other ones, you know, if you think about traditional networking, you know, required you to be out here, schmoozing, and meeting people. So I quickly realized I needed to find another way to build relationships. And that’s really what got me into the thinking of how there is such an immense power gap in the everyday actions we take, how we greet people, we send an email, how we leave a voicemail, you know, the profile they find online, you know, all of those things. So that’s kind of lesson number one. The next lesson was, you know, the, sort of the importance of those, you know, internal networks within companies, and how that can help you get your job done, and how those relationships when you, you know, go forward, and you want to do something else in your career, how those relationships are really critical, you know, because most people change jobs now. And you know, that person you used to work with may, I know, shocker. The four of us started at the same law firm back in 1991. Two of the four still there. I know it’s it’s kind of it’s kind of odd kind of odd. Um, so you know

Jeff 6:30

And the question I have is did they make partner yet? and It’s a funny question, because they are valued for the nose of the grindstone for a lot of years, but that’s not the partner role.

Kelly 7:54

Right? Like, this is exactly what you need to start building relationships and exercising that relationship building muscle before you get, you know, tapped on the shoulder and, you know, get handed the, you know, the, the keys to the corporate bathroom, or whatever it is that you know, like, you need to build those relationships. also learn during, you know, kind of that early stage besides like, you need to start doing this early and realizing that as you move up the ladder, the relationships you’re building, they’re moving up the ladder as well, realizing that sometimes your work does speak for itself, I ended up getting a job lead and a job opportunity to move firms, because opposing counsel saw what I was capable of. So you know, there’s another lesson in terms of your networking, you don’t, you know, you might be in a contentious situation with someone else on a business deal or on a transaction or, you know, fill in the blank, but they may really admire your skills. And so it behooves you even though you may need to be tough, and you’re looking after your client or you know, staking a claim to your interest. It behooves you to be considerate, and not a complete jerk in those situations, because it might actually may admire your negotiation, your tenacity, your hustle, and they say, you know what, I want you to come work for me. So I went work for another firm for two years before moving to New York City. You know, another lesson from all of those career changes and horns in the background, reminding everyone I am in New York. Another lesson from a time when I decided to move out of the act of practice of law is you need to build your network before you need it. Like you can’t just decide, oh, I’m going to make a complete 180 on my career and do something different. And realize that you need a word of mouth network to make the career change and you don’t have it. So build your network before you need it. Another lesson from there. Yeah,

Jeff 9:54

That are some great points that you’ve already made. That I want to emphasize the viewers and listeners and It starts off with creating a great impression at everything you do. Because you never know who’s watching, and they are watching. It’s an adversary, it’s someone internally, who’s sizing you up for promotion, or whether or not to pay attention to you. Because the classic example is the administrative staff notices everything. And so often from a class perspective, whether it’s a law firm, or financial firm, or whatever the institution is, I gotta say, even the smallest business, the administrative staff notices everything . And the question is whether they’re going to respect you. And these are people who will either make you or break you.

Kelly 10:41

When someone always says, How do you network with influencers, it’s like, be nice to the gatekeepers. It’s really simple. You know, whether it’s in a law firm, whether it’s in a big corporation, or whether it’s, you know, with startups and venture capital, I see so many people making the mistake of ignoring, you know, the the associate or the analyst, you know, the person on the low run of the hierarchy. And it’s like, hold on, they’re the ones who are reporting back to the, you know, the honchos, on the things that look interesting, and the founders, they find interesting or intriguing, or, you know, they like the reputation or they think there’s something about them, and, you know, you’re doing yourself the biggest disservice if you’re not looking after the gatekeepers and treating them with respect.

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Jeff 11:29

And it’s interesting with voicemail these days, it’s a little bit more complicated getting through, of course, you know, I remember when I started recruiting, and was working with the New York banks as clients, and you’d always have the admin, who was taking all the calls for the five recruiters, you know, in that department doing technology search, because that’s what I did for many years. And suddenly, they’re getting all these people trying to get past them, and not treating them with respect, and they smell of annoyance. And you know, your message, well, they’ve gone right into the trash. So, you know, with voicemails a little bit more complicated, do you have a suggestion for the type of message that you might leave for someone. And that was perfectly valid, because I don’t think there’s any one way that gets for through them.

Kelly 12:23

Exactly. I think this is where you probably want to speak with a slower cadence. I think this is where you may want to make sure you repeat who you are. And if there’s a phone, even though we can see in a phone numbers, repeat a phone number, this is may where it may be where you want to say I’m calling in regards to, here’s the important point, the rest is in an email that I will be sending to you or I have just sent to you, I think, you know, kind of keeping it very short and sweet and making sure that you’re recording the message somewhere where you’ve got clear reception and not a lot of background noise, because there’s nothing worse than getting a voicemail message and it’s rushed. There’s there’s wind, or there’s horns honking or there’s the people in the Starbucks or whatever it is, and you’re like, really like now. Like, who is this? What am I looking for, like, you know, and if you know that know who you’re sending it to be just like, hey, Gloria, or Hey, Bob, it’s so and so I’m calling in regards to here’s, you know, here’s what it is. But you know, there’s nothing sort of, and I’m trying to keep it under it, what I’m saying, keep it under a minute.

Jeff 13:45

4 0 seconds or less, actually, it’s preferable, because less is more in these things, especially if you send me an email.

Kelly 13:52

Because, think of it if it’s going to be super long, then it better be an emergency. Um, because I think people would rather read it and then they can see what it is. And they can have the points highlighted that they should be paying attention to. And I also think, you know, reason to sort of say, hey, it’s Kelly calling I’m calling in regard to my number to call me back is here’s my message. Thanks a lot. Again, it’s Kelly Hoey in regards to because sometimes our brains don’t pick up who it is immediately, like those first kind of five secs , six seconds. So that’s why I sort of, you know, repeat some of that information in a nice slow cadence.

Jeff 14:32

Thank you. Excuse the digression. I just thought it’d be nice to clarify a couple of things along the way.

Kelly 14:40

I think it’s a really good idea. And it’s so funny. I don’t know about you. I used to have my voicemail message on my phone used to be, don’t leave me a voicemail message because it is something like when I see who called, like, text them back or I’ll call them back to say, what’s up. Why were you calling me versus listening to a 36 exceed 90, you know, two minute voicemail message.

Jeff 15:03

And it’s interesting, we’re living in a time where very few of us take phone calls. So the message becomes important. I took a phone call, or I called someone day before yesterday. And he said the only reason he took the call was as a 516 ] Number. And although it wasn’t in his phone, he thought it might be someone he knew.

Kelly 15:25

You just did a study and the majority of Americans will not pick up a phone call from someone they don’t know.

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Jeff 15:33

We’ve all been trained by robo calls. So if it’s in our phone, like I’m supposed to get a confirmation for a reservation for the restaurant. And I put the phone number in because they’re supposed to call back to confirm the reservation time, It has been closed the last two days. So it’s just the idea. If it’s in the phone, or take the call, it’s not in the phone. When I check messages, if it’s a three second message, I know I can block it.

Kelly 15:59

And there’s not the same satisfaction with you know, this is like data is both to everybody listening and watching this conversation. You know, back in the day, when you had the rotary phone on the wall, when you got one of those annoying spam phone calls, there was a satisfaction of slamming down, you know, the phone is not the same with, you know, mobile device, you can take data the same, you know, we need a special button now maybe you know, Apple or, you know, Android to come up with that especial button that would give the same satisfaction of like the phone crashing down when you get a robo call. But

Jeff 16:34

it’s wonderful to learn about the violent nature that you have. So we’ve already covered a couple of important things, I interrupted you to go back to emphasize some previous points. If you can get back to that space we were a moment ago.

Kelly 16:50

Yes, I can. I was back at the point where I was looking to make a career change. And this is actually from leaving law. And then moving into a management role and a professional services firm. And when I went to make that change, I realized I had a really great network, if I continued wanted to continue to practice law, but it didn’t have a network that would allow me to expand into other things. Because the role I was going in, needed to have a very strong word of mouth network and a particular niche of professional development and training. And so I had to build that network. So that was kind of the lesson of, you know, build your network before you need it. And then you know, a big lesson from there going forward was never to leave my career vulnerable again, you always ensure there was a vast diversity of, of people in different roles and different sectors and different titles and different points in their career. So that if I decided to make another crazy career pivot, you know, I had a support network to follow upon rather than going through what I had just been through, literally 18 months to build a network to the point that it was strong and vibrant enough to feed me and refer me opportunities.

Jeff 18:04

And those folks, for those of you who are career transitioners. And you’re going back to school for things, I know, I did my did coach training, I spent 40 years in search, decide to transition. And I thought I should get some some underpinnings with me. And I realized pretty quickly, they taught me how to coach but not the business of culture, and a different subset. And with Kelly’s speaking of here is you may be going back to school for an MBA, but when you get out of school, what are you gonna do with it, and how you gonna land that position, all it’s going to happen is happens with so many people, all this happens is you spent a lot of money for personal satisfaction, but can’t do the work that you want it to be doing. Because you didn’t invest the time in the networking proactively. You’re up the creek without a paddle. There’s been a lot of time working to get there. So I encourage you even even if you’re going to make a transition within your existing career, do the work proactively. And that’s true of those of you who are beginners and certainly by Now for those of you were veterans, you know this lesson, you just don’t do it.

Kelly 19:16

Well, and this is where that, you know, go back to my first career, the idea that networking is more than talking to strangers at a cocktail party. It is the people you already know it’s the people you worked with. It’s the people that you see regularly in the community or you know, your church or other places of worship, whatever it may be. All of those are part of your network and could create and fuel opportunities for you. So how are you treating those people? How are you acknowledging and being of service to them because those little actions every single day will add up. And I’m not saying little actions every day with everyone in your network. But you know, sending a birthday card You know, having people on, you know, a holiday card list, I’m watching what they’re posting and what their updates are on social media, remembering advice they gave you and telling them that you remember, and you still apply it like, just continually to fuel those things will maintain connections, or in the case of people you haven’t seen in a while, you know, acknowledging something in their life will bring back that sort of that rush of warm feelings from when you worked with them before,

Jeff 20:31

Right. Or the relationship that you had with them before whatever format was.

Kelly 20:36

Right.

Jeff 20:37

And inadequate anecdote from my life. There was a time where I sat with a number of men who are in the restaurant business in New York. And when my son was considering a career in culinary school, I introduced him to want to be an executive chef at a great restaurant in New York. And he mentored my son for a while until pandemic, advice, took him to dinner, spend time with him, because our son was back in New York, and we aren’t. So these relationships can take a lot of different forms.

Kelly 21:12

Absolutely.

Jeff 21:13

They need to be nurtured, and watered and cultivated, and weeded, intended, like a garden.

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Kelly 21:20

Exactly, exactly. In watching what they need, and thinking about what you need as well. And, you know, I really think that, you know, so this idea of continually doing small acts is so much easier than holding on to this outdated notion that you will walk into, you know, a cocktail party, a chamber of commerce lunch, you know, you know, fill in the blank with a bunch of people you don’t know, and somehow someone is going to, you know.

Jeff 21:49

Magically appear

Kelly 21:51

Or there’s someone that’s gonna, you know, magically, you know, sprinkle the networking fairy dust on you, and all your wishes will come true. I’m like, really mean? No, I mean, that the the one time I like to say to people, I had pure networking, serendipity was getting on a flight from Mexico City to Dallas. The guy next to me was a complete fearful flyer and a chatter and I usually sit very quietly on planes. So initially, I was like, oh, Lord, this is going to be a long flight. He’s not going to shut up, ends up. He’d been a, he was a roadie for anthrax. And he’d been on tour in South America for four and a half months. I had the best conversation.

Jeff 22:37

Folks, you never know where it happens. Exactly, exactly. One of my favorites is a guy that I know, who really taught me the power of networking. And the story was a homerun for me, about a guy who was unemployed. He is on the phone trying to talk to a recruiter. And this cleaning person walks over to him and says, can I get a copy of a resume. And being the self respecting male he was he was very dismissive because it’s social class. This is the cleaning person, she’s going to help me. This goes on a couple of different visits. And eventually his wife comes in as and given the resume, she started to bother me. And the woman was someone whose husband was the president of a bank. And she did this as part of her belief in humility. And thus, the cleaning person got him his job with her husband’s bank. Yeah, and I’m watching the look on your face of it’s either you’re trying to stifle a sneeze? Or it’s a story that resonates for you in some way.

Kelly 23:45

Oh, yes. And you know, I love that you never know, this is where, you know, this is where I want to say the leaning into conversations to not judging the book by its cover, because you never know. They may just be interested in what you do. They may they may have wanted your resume because they need to put together one themselves. And they wanted a really good example. You know, like, why can’t we just be kind and help humanity that way? But why can’t we just be interested, but we still have, you know, this is the start this started this whole conversation off like Kelly wants to rebrand networking. Yes. Because we still cling to these notions that, you know, only certain types of people can help us and we’re assuming someone probably who is, you know, in in a suit and has a fancy title and a corner office where, you know, that’s just not true of the world anymore.

Jeff 24:42

No, so there you are. You moved to New York. And eventually you landed a job?

Kelly 24:49

No, I had the job and moved to New York. So okay. Fortunately, you know, I had five connections when I moved to New York and one of them helped me get interviewed. And get a job. The five people I knew were my ex husband and four of his friends. So thankfully, I expanded my network Jeff, thankfully, I, you know, took that initiative because it’d be a sad state today, if I hadn’t,

Jeff 25:14

without a doubt, because I’m not sure that the four friends were allied with you.

Kelly 25:21

Oh, he got them in the divorce? I got some other friends. So yeah.

Jeff 25:24

Okay. So there, you’re in New York, you land a job? How did you expand your network at that time.

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Kelly 25:30

So I was deep in the work. And so really, with my colleagues of the law firm I was at, and new banking clients that I was working at, but then I realized I wanted to make this career change. And I was like, oops, but networks that came into play to help me make the career change, you know, get it started. You know, being that great colleague, there was, you know, few of the partners I worked with, who were like, Hey, I know someone you should talk to. friends, colleagues from when I worked in Toronto, who had made similar career change came to my aid and where they were like, Hey, here’s where you need to do this, here’s why you need that. And then also, one of the things I did was sort of hunting around. This is sort of as a strategy hunting around is seeing who else had the types of jobs that I was looking to move into. There was another firm that had someone in the role and I wanted to talk to them. And then I realized that someone I knew had a great connection to that law firm. So I said to them, could you on the basis of the strength of your relationship, get me an informational interview with this person. And then that guy, Brad turned into being a great mentor, he made suggestions to me sort of like, Hey, here’s some things you might want to do, you know, sort of thinking of himself as someone who would be in a position to hire someone like me, he pointed out the gaps in my resume that someone would say, or, you know, there’s a problem. That’s nice, you’ve been a lawyer for all these years, Kelly, but you haven’t done this. So this is where I went back to NYU and or went back to school. And I went to NYU School of Continuing Professional Studies, and got a you know, certificate in HR management, in particular, and specifically took courses that filled in my resume gap. It also expanded my network, when several of the people I took classes with continue to be, you know, in my network in, you know, friends to this day, I got on a committee of the Bar Association here in New York City. And that was on the recommendation of someone else I had an intern informational interview with and she said, this is how you’re going to meet everyone, Kelly, because we’ve planned events, and the people you want to hire you or meet with you, or the people we put on the panels, and I’m like, Alright, I’m there, I can do this. So it was just it was chipping away at it. But as I said, it took like, 18 months to to build the entire process of building the network and landing the new job, then that was a factor of the job market at the time, it was a factor of I’m gonna say kind of the, the right serendipity, I had a lot of interviews. And you know, it’s kind of like the Three Bears not quite right, all that kind of stuff. But the real piece in all of this, Jeff is probably in the first six months, I met everybody I needed to meet. But I had to spend the next five months maintaining those, and doing it in a way that I wasn’t just landing in their inbox saying, hey, any job openings, hey, any job openings, Hey, have you heard of any job opening? So I really had to think about how can I add value? How can I be helpful to them? How can I stay top of mind and not be top of their list of annoying people who are in their voicemail or in their inbox?

Jeff 28:52

Because one thing I know, folks is you don’t want to ever be seen as one of those people. And so it’s one of the messages we all get about networking, we get the phone call from out of the blue from that person we work with seven years ago. Hi, you know, it’s about a job. Kelly’s case, she’s networking in a new city, to her new role. And she’s having informational interviews. And now what you got to follow up, and you can’t make it seem like you’re a pest. Because I know you don’t want to be seen as a pest. You don’t want to feel like a pest. So how do people follow up like you did? And have the result?

Kelly 29:36

Right? Well, so you mean for any informational interview? I mean, there is the follow up that is just the common courtesy you say thank you. Right really shocked that some people don’t do that. I know. So you can you can do the shocked face again. So you send the Thank you. And then I send the follow up to say hey, you suggested you know, you suggested this group or you suggested this book or you suggested to talking to someone. So, you know, you gave me this lead, whatever, whatever advice, guidance lead, they gave me I would follow up on that, I would make kind of a mental note in a in a, like job search note on the kinds of things they were interested in. So part of my whole job searches, I was living and breathing the job before I got it, Jeff, I went to the same conferences like I paid for and went to the same conferences, these people were going to, I was reading the books they were reading, I was reading, you know, the periodicals and the content, you know, that whatever was top of mind for these professionals, because I found this out information and probably like absorbing all of that information, I wouldn’t assume that they necessarily had seen the article. And if they had, maybe they had a point of view on it. So I would send people articles and I’d say, I’d Hey, I don’t know if you saw this. But I remember from our conversation we talked about wondered what you thought about this point, and the number of times that people got back to me, and they said, Wow, I hadn’t actually seen this one. Thanks for sending it to me, you know, I’ll let you know what I think of it when, you know, when I get back to you like, like, once I’ve read it, I’ll get back to you and let you know. So you just have to kind of think of those things. And there was no particular rhyme or reason or, you know, like every second Thursday, I sent emails, it all depended on what I was reading. And the other sort of natural flow about, you know, the career transition job search. But I just made it sort of a daily job to do these things. The good news was doing that, a, they sourced a role for me, and b, you know, when I did land the job, and I had the support network of, you know, colleagues in the industry, to call upon to say, Hey, have you ever faced this? Have you had this problem? You know, did you did you did this happen to you, in the first 30 days of a new job, like I had people to call in and who supported me, who were, you know, independent of the place I was working.

Jeff 32:06

You’ll notice, folks. And by the way, you’ll notice I’m doing a translation at times, you’ll notice that we’re Kelly’s been doing is building relationships, and kind of like in blind dating and meet someone the first time, and you have to figure out what’s that conversation going to be like, you know, without it seeming rote. Because if there’s no personality in it, you’re dull. And no one wants to ever be defined as dull or bored. So how do you use that introduction to your benefit? How do you maintain the conversation like you would if you’re actually interested in going out with this person, and do the things periodically to cultivate it, so that each of you is getting something from it. And there’s a lot more that you cover with including learning the job before you were actually asked to do it, spending the money to learn what you needed to learn in order to do it, and writing the checks to be at the conferences with the people writing the checks, filling out the credit card information, to go to the conferences to be with the people who were influential.

Kelly 33:23

Right. There was a there was an author, who was literally sort of the the guru in the area was going but the career area was wanting to move into. And her book was like the one everyone was reading. And she was one of the speakers at this conference I attended. And I remember, there was like the coffee area, and she was grabbing her coffee before she was speaking. And I thought, you know what, and I literally had her book under my arm. And I went up to her and I said, Ida, you don’t know me, but I’m a big fan of your book. I’m a lawyer in career transition, looking to move into this area. I’m really looking forward to your talk. And she looked at me, she said, and she said, I’d love to follow up with you later. You know, thank you for buying my book. And do you have a card? How can I get to as another thing in career transition, like make sure people can find your contact information, make sure you have that visible because I knew during the conference, she was going to be too busy to sit down with little old me. But as she had also, at some point made a career transition to get where she is today. She was really receptive to talking to me and talking to someone who was being so proactive. Not just someone walking up going, Oh my God, your books, fantastic, you know, like kind of gushing in that way. And okay, so this has got to be back in 2001. Jeff.

Jeff 34:43

like dinosaurs.

Kelly 34:47

Exactly. And to this day, Ida is a friend and a mentor. So,you know.

Jeff 34:53

Go figure, and yeah, we’ve covered a lot. I want to make sure we cover the important points for you. What happened spoken about yet that we really should?

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Kelly 35:02

Well, let me there’s one quick rule change that I think is an important one. You’re like, Yay. So this is the career change where I had the really unexpected job offer. And it was when I was offered the role of be coming the president of a global business network for women, it was an unadvertised position. I think it was created on the fly when the founder of the network was on the phone with me. And that came about Jeff because I was very active and involved in the network. And I asked good questions, and I use the tools. And I contributed, and I raised my hand and I volunteered. And the founder called me one day and said, Who are you? What do you do? You’re asking great questions. And I’d like your contributions, and we had an hour long phone call. And she offered me this role of becoming the president of this global business network. And the lesson in that is, listen, we can all slide our credit card in and become a member of something right? We can all just say, Oh, yeah, I’m a member of the Chamber of Commerce or, you know, whatever, whatever group, but how do you show up? And how do you contribute? So many people think the group or the platform is going to do the work and delivered to them, rather than realizing this is your opportunity to show, you know, your skills, your talents, you know, you don’t just get to say that you’re a self starter and proactive you can show it by being active in these communities. And by being active, like very active and very visible, it was in my interest and in the interest of the community and created an opportunity for me, that changed everything.

 

Jeff 36:43

It’s so interesting, how we’re all programmed from the time we’re in school, to sit in the back of the class, so that the teacher doesn’t call on us. And then from I don’t know, if it’s that way, now, I suspect that is judging what my son told me when he was in school, but we’re programmed not to be seen for fear that we make a mistake. And what happens is, by playing small in the world, we wind up being small in the world, and putting yourself out and being visible in so many venues. Just Just on this one conversation for at least a half a dozen places where you’ve been a visible figure. And in doing so, put yourself in the position to be seen.

Kelly 37:34

But yeah, you show people it’s like, you know, people ask about network is it who you know, or what you know, and I’m like, it’s who knows what you know, like, put your talents and skills on display, don’t just say, you know, something, don’t just say you’re good at something, show people so that they know what to call you for or that they, you may you may discover, you know, or hidden opportunities may discover you, because of your actions because of your questions because of your involvement.

Jeff 38:03

And thus, the, the framework of show don’t tell the people who tell, often don’t really know as much as they claim to know, but the ones that are willing to put it out there proactively and share. Yeah, people get a taste for what you do, like, I podcast as you’ve done. And I’m 2100 episodes in. And my youtube channel has almost 7000 videos. And I’ve written for a bunch of publications. My blog has, like, 11,000 person, it’s insane how much content I have created and people know me, from what they’ve read, listen to or seen, because, and then they have a flavor for me. Because when people hire coaches, as was the case, when I did recruiting, I didn’t know who to trust. And I want to give people a sense that they can trust me being forward and putting myself out, has made a huge difference. Even though I’m not everyone’s cup of tea.

Kelly 39:11

Well, but we know that with, you know, when you’re working with someone, like you know, in your situation, being a coach, but working with anyone, you know, it’s a personal relationship. And sometimes it might be the skill set or you know, the unique, you know, I wouldn’t say access someone has that you’re like, I got to put up with this person. Like I don’t like you know, I don’t like them, you know, they’re hard to deal with, but here’s why I’ve hired them. But in situations like you know you’re in like I am in , it’s a relationship game. So you them, the more someone gets to know you so you can decide, you know, is this going to be the right working relationship, the better it is, but it always surprises me, you know, the, you know, people who don’t, you know, even spend sort of the minimal amount of time like even to know that you have, you know, a blog that you have a YouTube candle that you have a podcast, like even the lack of awareness of of you know that information, just sort of be able to say, Wow, like you’ve done a lot like I got some work to do to figure you all out. I mean, I would even respect that versus people jumping on and going, What do you mean? You’ve got a blog? Yeah. When did that start? You’re like, really, you could spend like, maybe like 30 seconds looking me up.

Jeff 40:23

And I went to number seventy six, fifty three of, the seven hundred fifty million people on the platform. Kelly, this is a lot of fun and I know we could go on for another hour. How could people find out more about you in the work that you do the book?

Kelly 40:43

Yes, that’s always a good place to start in. My Website has got all my social links and all the good stuff, their blog posts, podcast links, you know, social media, media handles. And that’s Jkellyhoey.co and that’s j k e l l y h e o y . c o

Jeff 41:03

Thank you. And folks will be back soon with more on Jeff up in the Big Game Hunter. Hope you enjoyed the interview. If you did, you’re watching on YouTube. Click the like button. Subscribe to the channel. Do something that lets people know it was worthwhile share it, you know, to all the good stuff. And I encourage you also subscribe to the No BS job search advice radio five days a week. Great content that will help you find work more quickly. Connect with me on LinkedIn on linkedin.com/in/thebiggamehunter Com forward slash. I am forward slash the big game hunter and show that you saw the video. I like knowing of helping some folks and once we’re connected, if I can be of service to you, let me know. I’d love to help. Oh yes. My Web site, Thebiggamehunter.us Go to the blog, go exploring sign in for complementary discovery call with me or schedule time for coaching. I’d love to help. Hope you have a terrific day and most importantly, be great. Take care.

[svp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njakMaUBi2c[/svp]

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ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER

Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. He is hired to provide No BS Career Advice globally. That can involve job search, hiring staff, management, leadership, career transition and advice about resolving workplace issues. Schedule a discovery call at my website, www.TheBigGameHunter.us

He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with over 2400 episodes.

I do a livestream on LinkedIn, and YouTube (on the JobSearchTV.com account) Tuesdays and Fridays at 1 PM Eastern. You can send your questions about job search, hiring better, management, leadership or to get advice about a workplace issue to me via messaging on LinkedIn or in chat during the approximately 30-minute show.

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