Body Language: Decoding Faces |

This is an interview with Dan Hill, author of “Famous Faces Decoded” where we look at reading the language of facial expressions, and some of the thoughts and emotions are hidden in plain sight.

By the way, the first few seconds include the countdown to the recording. Smile!

Body Language: Decoding Faces |

You may also enjoy The Body Language Guide for Job Hunters

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Bonjour Monsieur
Hi! This is Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter and you're either watching Job
Search TV or listening to this as No BS. Job Search Advice Radio. I like to spend
some time periodically talking with an expert in some element of job search.
That is what the show is about, right? And. I've got a good one today. Folks, if
you've been watching or listening to me for any length of time you know I have a
particular interest in body language and . . . . . . don't please don't click away. You've seen
stuff I've done before on this but I've got a really good expert about it and
his name is Dan Hill he's an internationally recognized expert on
emotions and the founder and president of. The Sensory Logic which has done market
research for over half of the top 100. B2C companies in the world and he's the
author of a new book he's got multiple ones out but his new book is called
." Famous Faces decoded. I'Il put the link in the show notes so you can you know
connect with it on Amazon a guidebook for reading others and welcome thank you
Nice to be here, Jeff. I somehow I have the idea that when little boys and little girls
grow up and their parents say so what do you want to be when you grow up your
professions not on the list isn't notice not on the list but it did start when I
was a little boy strangely enough my family did a reverse migration my dad
worked for 3m company he got assigned to a film processing plant in Italy so he
left the new world from the old world and I landed in Naples and I look to my
left and there's a baby octopus hanging from a meat hook and I basically said to
myself we're not in Kansas anymore toto. I thought myself in a country where I
did not know the language I went to. Italian first grade in the fishing
village and I had a lot of free time so. I could only do math units and I was
looking around trying to take in the body language the expressions of my new
classmates and guess what Italians have a little bit of body language it's
ruined sorry yeah sorry sorry Oh types yes more
than a little true and that's really kind of where it started but then it lay
dormant for a lot of years this really wasn't what I expected it's profession
but it's a great fit for me and folks before you fear were in a situation that
we're gonna go off the deep end about body language everywhere what we're
going to do is focus in on from for you as a job hunter and some of the towels
you can pick up a loan from an employer as well as some of the tells you give
them when you're being interviewed because for people look at signals it's
not just listening to what you say but because if you watch me or heard me for
any length of time it's not just what you say that matters it's how you tell
the story and the message that you communicate both in your words and in
your behaviors that come together to allow them to either trust you and want
to hire you when not trust you and go and and send you out the trapdoor so
when someone's being interviewed let's start with them you're looking at the
employer for a second what sort of signals does an employer give off that
indicates interest curiosity want to go in deeper like what do they do in their
expressions that signal that sure so let's just lay the groundwork for facial
coding a little bit so we're talking about seven different emotions that are
revealed through twenty three where called action units muscle activity on
the face of those seven emotions if you want to say do they actually care about
me are they interested mean as a person probably two or three things we're gonna
give that away the most of all one is curiosity do they actually have an
interest in who you are when you are surprised the eyes go wider you are
taking in information the eyebrows may rise we hit more vision that way they're
seeing you hopefully they're feeling they're getting an understanding of who
you are so certainly you wanna start with surprise the second one is
one second to inject one thing and that requires that you notice what their norm
is so you can detect your difference. Tran and from that you know recognize
the change in their eyes right yeah which means the interview starts before
the first question you're coming in the room what's the baseline as they sit
down maybe they've got another person sitting in on the interview they're
probably going to interact between them before they turn to you because they're
more familiar with that person so you're absolutely right just like a basketball
game starts before the first you know tossed by the ref yeah look around who
you're dealing with there's a lot of chance in the unguarded moments to get
that baseline which then tells you this is actually more surprise than they
normally see because my answer interested them they're leaning forward
they're paying attention great thank you and inject that one thing so what was
the second thing that you were diving into well I'm going to look for some
happiness because happiness a smile is not trivial
happiness is an embracing emotion it means they're reaching out towards you
they're approaching you that gives you a chance to say this is someone who's
gonna get their their their arms around me metaphorically speaking and that's
great the third thing there is a third thing is engagement level they should
actually be showing some emotions on their face they should be motivated to
be interested in you if every answer you give them guess it's really complete
deadpan flat effect back this may not be the person you want to spend eight hours
a day around you know for the next few years of your life and folks if you were
watching me and you're listening to this is a podcast you would have seen me
nodding my head is Dan was talking about that because that's one of the tells
employers give is the head nod you know as you're talking and you're saying
something they're in agreement with their nodding their head right yeah
because the nodding is an approach of motion just like happiness so a nod and
and a happy smile together is a one-two punch coming your way but not to kill
you but to welcome you instead yes right so those are the obvious ones for
the for the employer side of this to indicate interest on their part what
other kinds of emotions might they share that might signal or provide a tell to
use the poker term of their interest than you well they're losing them for
that matter well I think it's almost important to say you're losing them
because I remember being in a pitch meeting for Toyota and I got the project
but at one point the key person in the room started looking down and when a
person looks down it can be a signal of sadness as in disappointed as in this
meetings not really worth my time and and I'm checking out here so sadness is
the contrast obviously to happiness and you're going to see sadness you can get
a little wince in the cheek for instance the eyes can go down the head can go
down the corners of the mouth go down essentially in the simplest terms
sadness is it's something is sagging it's falling away happiness lifts lifts
you up it's got a peak to it sadness is falling down into the ravine
you don't want to be in the ravine you'll not get hired out of the ravine
will not happen agree it's funny when someone taught me the the basics of NLP
neuro-linguistic programming in NLP you know I contact and looking up was a
visual person looking to the side was an auditory looking down was a person who
communicated from feelings you know so I see what you mean is the one for the
visual person i hugh use the one for the auditory the famous one for feeling was
Bill Clinton President Clinton who would say I feel your pain yes yes and
communicating from that perspective and. I'm wondering how someone can
distinguish between one and the other whether it's a you know someone who's
just in the feeling State but not quite at thee I've lost them staying you know
I don't know that answer I'm wondering if you have a way of distinguishing
between the two well I don't and I have a PhD so I'm used to research and so you
know P interests me but it doesn't have the same research foundation that facial
coding does because facial coding goes back to Charles Darwin and then in all
truth there's a man named Paul Ekman who's the expert on facial coding and
he's considered to be one of the top 20 psychologists in the world so the guy
does his homework and he spent more than 12 years systematically figuring out
which muscle movements you know fit to which you know which emotions and that's
really central so when I'm looking at someone it because I've been interviewed
and I've interviewed when I'm being interviewed I'm also looking for what I
call the signature expression is there something they go to repeatedly because
human beings have patterns to them you're looking for the pattern then they
will be there more times than not so do they have a go-to expression a go-to
emotion for instance do I want to work for a hothead well I might if it's
low-key anger because that can indicate they want to make progress they want to
get things done that's wonderful I like to work in jobs where I get a chance to
make a difference on the other hand if their anger is more intense like there's
a little bulge beneath the middle of their lower lip with their lips pressed
together I would say that's a watch out now you're going back to the
honeymooners with Jackie Gleason saying. I'm gonna hit you to the moon through
his wife Audrey I don't think I want to work for that kind of guy on that kind
of woman so so what kind of anger do you get what's the pitch the level of it
when does it come out that's really important because anger and happiness
together are 70% of most people's emotive 70 percent so they're the
heavyweights so I gotta look for the happiness and I gotta look for the anger
and then everything else is the filler I remember working for a guy when I still
did headhunting and I sold my business and I was at the
point where I was working for a couple of firms over a number of years and this
one guy I work with was the happiest guy in the world until he wasn't yeah and
when he wasn't he had he had a tell his eyes became
all his mouth became small there was a quizzical look on his face that for
interpreters I don't understand where your brains are at this moment and you
know once I taught it to everyone in the room as soon as he had the look on the
face those I told that I would believe was yes I'm one was gonna get targeted
at that moment and I was damned if it was gonna be me and the people that were
working for me yeah well you're spot-on because one sign of anger and D and very
reliable is the eyes do narrow and the lower eyelid gets taut and straight that
is a sign that the tornado I was just about to come
oops so true now we've been focusing on on the employer side of this and the
tells the idea and I'm wondering about the tells that the job hunter gives and
thus folks you can learn the behaviors that you should be showing on your face
that will signal to people that they should trust you so I'm gonna defer to
you you run with this point okay Dan sure well I think we have to start with
fear and this is really interesting because you mentioned baselining earlier
and that's true if I'm the interviewer and I'm interviewing this person I'm
gonna accept that they're nervous coming into the interview but I really don't
want them to be still showing that same level of nervousness twenty minutes into
the interview we should get into the game and you should be able to relax and
you know acclimate to the situation and the reason why fear is so worrisome is
because fear freezes you well as an employer I don't want a highest one
who's frozen you know might make for great revenue for Disney for the movie
but it's not so good for the revenue of the company on a day-to-day basis
because that tells me I'm gonna have somebody who won't take initiative who
keeps circling back to me and taking up my precious time as the manager saying
you know can I put three pencils on my desk instead of just do and all these
little trivial things that should just be acted on thank you very much and keep
moving so I definitely want to look for fear and one of the most reliable signs
of fear is that the mouth pulls wide and kind of an egads sort of expression
so that's one really important thing but the other one the counter version of
that is I'm looking for some happiness again and there's a really particular
reason why I'm looking for happiness change happens all the time
it happens in the world that happens in the workplace there are reorg three
assignments only about research shows only about one quarter of all employees
readily accept change only one quarter you want to be in the one quarter
because that's a bonus to the person hiring you
that means when they're hand-holding and bringing the other people along you're
one person they don't have to worry about so you reduce their fear because
you're not consumed by fear yourself interesting so again looking at this on
an interview we're looking at happiness and fear yep
and you've talked about some of the signals and thus so far the one signal
you want to be giving is the happiness signal is there something specific that
suggests that you are not the one thing that's freaked out by change well I
think there is because contempt is I've really interesting emotion it can play
in so many different ways now a contempt expression is a smirk think of snidely
whiplash from the old cartoon character he is conferred modified and for those
of you never seen snidely whiplash go onto YouTube and just look for one of
the cartoons from Bullwinkle is it. Bullwinkle world yes I think it is
Bullwinkle or is it doubly do-right whatever just look for snidely whiplash
has a youtube video and you'll stop what he's talking about yeah and the
character's name should already give you a pretty good clue
I asked her what smirking is all about the core of the mouth pulls up and a
wide it's a little bit of I'm above you and it's kind of an odd version of a
smile because there is a positive version to it which is why you would
potentially hire someone who's smirking and the reason is they are feeling
superior and confident think of Tom. Brady he smiles and he smirks often at
the same time like I've got this I can win this I can handle this so that
suggests someone who can go there so smirk is not necessarily fatal when the
other hand watch out for it if it comes along with anger for instance because
now you got something that's just a little bit too snarly to find it
probably pleasant to interact with on a daily basis and it has a little extra
punch to it because unfortunately a smirk can also signal not just that I'm
competent and superior and at ease it can also suggest that I find you beneath
me I don't trust you I don't respect you you probably don't want to go through
your day as an employer do you know somebody who feels like you're you know
in minced meat and beneath them and that's not gonna you know make the warm
and fuzzies you know fly that's been. Bill Belichick because I know very much
so yes and in fact he's famous for saying of his players well I I coached
the players I actually have not the players I wish I have just already
pretty snarly and then he says I keep it simple so they don't screw it up I mean
play here you did not say screw it up he said something else
of course and I'm wondering is there a signal between superiority and not
contempt Oh arrogance that's the word I was looking for because to me there's a
subtle difference between arrogance and justifiable arrogance because there's
some people deserve to be arrogant because they're the best in the world
are the best of what they do that's the one that they dealt with so far well it
means again we got 7 emotions so you should be looking at the blend and
there's a really important point we haven't gone to yet which is the
interactive abilities I mean because this isn't a set piece where question
answer you should be playing off there question playing they should be playing
off your answer there seems to be some free-form about this I mean I do not
really want to go work for somebody who's got a question sheet and they
could only go down the question sheep 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 this does not suggest me I
have an innovative person who's about to hire me same thing is true in the person
being interviewed so yes I might show that smirk for a moment but then if the
person goes and starts talking about a situation that was you know really sad
where some employee disappointed them or they had a tough go in transition within
the company well then empathy is an order and everything can
also be sadness actually this is a moment where sadness is appropriate
because sadness can happen because you feel isolated or alone or the situation
is hopeless well I don't want somebody to smirk at the moment that they're
driving by a car accident on the side of the road that is not the
sort of person I want to hire so it should be suitable to the moment it's
what I call being on emotion not just talking points but feeling points on
message on emotion is the emotions being shown by both people in this
conversation appropriate to the subject matter and can they go there can they be
emotionally flexible do they have the EQ to adapt to the moment it can be an
emotional touch right so in the example of a failure you know when you have to
do a story that relates to something that just didn't work out I think about
looking down briefly to demonstrate feeling I think in terms of slowing
speech down ever so slightly so that it suggests you're in the feelings is that
portable oh you're absolutely spot on because sadness yeah we're not when I
give advice to NBA teams and who to take in the draft and so forth I say look out
for sadness generally speaking because it slows you down and you want to get
down the basketball court and stuff it through the hoop on the other hand
sadness can be really good in a timeout it can be really good in the locker room
because sadness does slow you down and the advantage of you leverage it right
is it makes you reflect on the mistake you made so you don't make it again and
a third time and a fourth time and a fifth time
it suggests someone who's able to reflect and to take feedback because
believe me an employer is looking for an employee who can take feedback and
constructively model it because sooner or later you're going to get to the
dreaded annual employee review session and that's going to be a moment of
tension because in many ways the person being interviewed or the employees
waited here did I get a raise did I get a raise did I get a raise how much but
what the employers trying to get across says these are some places where I'd
like you to improve they want you to actually reflect in that moment and be
able to come back with an improved version of yourself which you might get
you a bigger race than this little paltry one you might be getting that
year and folks I'm just gonna do a slight digression then come back to the
show if you can avoid organizations the to the annual review and let me just
explain for those of you in marriage can you just imagine going to your wife and
husband and go it's time for a review why don't you sit down pour a glass of
wine it's time for me to give you the annual review there's some things that
you've done very well but there's a lot that I think he could show improvement
he's in that what it feels like to be given a review I digress so yeah and the
big moments gonna be but right and then you steel yourself right so back to the
emotions that get conveyed in an interview we've covered happiness we've
covered sadness we've covered a bunch of them so far whatever we gotten to yet
we haven't gotten to discussed oh there are there are two aversive emotions and
contempt is the more toxic one because it's attitudinal it really lingers but
disgust is a great signal for the interactive moment because disgust is
the nose wrinkles the upper lip flares is as if something smells bad tastes bad
look out for the moment of the interview where you give an answer and they just
can't help but their gut reaction is to show disgust something you just said did
not sit well with them tastes bad smells bad to them
you better pivot you better recognize it and you're better softened pivot make
the answer you just gave that was sour a little sweeter if possible and I'm
wondering if you should acknowledge what you're picking up on I get the idea that
no you don't agree no no I do not think you go there it's you just can't bring
forth negatives in an interview but yet to you have to pick up when they've been
subtle signal to you yeah can what you do
because again I'm exploring options in an interview did you say is there a
different way that I can express this for you or I know I'm right
what am I missing here well yes you can come back to a question to try to
understand why they had their reaction but I wouldn't go so straight as I say
you look really disgusted with my last answer for one they they may not
recognize it themselves yeah because most of our remoting this
is really important most of our moaning happens subconsciously our feelings
happen consciously but our emotions as a term psychologists reserved for what
subconsciously happens to us and most of the game is actually played
subconsciously the studying statistic that caused me to get into this field
was a Cornell University publication with a killer statistic that 95% of our
mental activity is not fully conscious that's the conservative estimation it
may be 98 percent so even if you ask the direct question they're either gonna
like say not me or not realize it's them either way you lose I think it's much
better to ask the question to try to amend your answer to add on to your
answer but you have to stay the other point here is we have to stay authentic
because Trust is really important obviously and lying it's not a good
place to go to and you will give away moments of discomfort on your face
obviously and most of us are not you tried and trued liars who are not pretty
made offs we tend to give away moments we were lying with discomfort and what
other things of course now back to the job hunter and the tales that they have
yep how do you detect or self evaluate some of your behaviors so that you start
taking corrective action for being on the stage because to me interviewing is
a performance-art sure well you mentioned Bill Clinton earlier well he
was really lucky in the debates in 1992 because among his good friends were
Hollywood producers so they went early to the set they looked at the sight
lines all these things and I'm sure Bill. Clinton
practice this because I saw those states it's what I call the golden blend the
golden blend is a mixture of happiness and anger so you want the happiness
because it's expansive it's upbeat it's nice to be around happy
people but you do actually want some anger now you don't want the
over-the-top anger but anger is a really important emotion because it's signals
that I want to make progress I want to break through barriers I want to be in
control of my destiny you do want to hire an employee if he's are in a
reasonable organization that's not read to annual employee reviews you want the
the the employee is going to actually get a chance to do something and so that
golden blintz already for one things seemed to lose flexibility you're not
just channeled into only one emotion because happiness has a downside as well
too much happiness can signal that you're kind of blase you're really
comfortable and you let the details go well that's not so great either so anger
hasn't purposefulness to it and happiness have some I can be content and
a pleasant chap to deal with or women to deal with so when I think of the range
in the anger emotion in vocabulary as between let's say firm on the low end of
anger too fierce on the other pole of it yes yeah within that range of anger is
so a different vocabulary word that you can pull that might more accurately
destroyed let's say Clinton for those well III I think the thing you should
really be looking for among me because there's more signals for anger in the
face than any other emotion sadness is second so the thing I think you really
want to look for is that their focus they're concentrated you know and the
way you see that is the eyebrows pitch together and they lower now if that
comes along with the eyes narrowing or the mouth getting a horizontal funnel
like you know the dog has just had the bone taking away from it that's the
anger is that you don't want to go to but think of Tom Hanks Tom Hanks does
that pinched eyebrow paying attention look really well it's very you know
endemic to who he is as a person he's careful on the script
rising the he comes ready to deliver and. I think that's a good sign that's a good
version of anger President Obama had his version of that too we're clearly when
he was unhappy unhappiness for him translated into beyond annoyance it
became anger as well he did because what he showed was that they chin pulled
upwards and he got to that thanks to. Mitch McConnell if we're gonna go into
politics just a little bit he felt really stymied by the the Senate and he
got to a point where actually you know you get muscle memory and over time if
you show an expression over and over especially if you show it intensely it
literally changes your face and so Obama got to a point where the muscles in his
you know below his mouth and above his chin bone
they got stretched he got this little bubble of frustration that would show
because the frustration was so intense so that upward push is actually anger
disgust and sadness all at the same time and over the for eight years actually
but it was already there by three or four years that really weld into
something it made the the muscles looser more bubbly it was kind of your test to
look at sadly it was a it was Beltway gridlock manifested right on his face
so truth so whatever we covered yet that we really need to Dan uh well I think we
should go to line because now there is no lying muscle in the face you know if
there's a god he or she did make it quite that simple to give it away but
there are some tells you should look for so obviously one is fear you know the
mouth pose lied you know they're losing all eye contact with you they they give
office you know they'd like to be anyplace other than in that room at that
moment so that's the kind of the obvious one another one they'll go to especially
if the interviewer comes back and challenges them on something in their
resume or do they really have that skill center or something that they they might
show anger like a certain self righteous anger so if you're the interviews a
person trying to get this job and you get challenged
I would say don't lose it you know you might show just a little bit but bring
that golden blend in a whole lot more than the indignation because there are a
lot of very notable liars I'm thinking about Lance Armstrong who was really
adamant that he had not engaged in doping well it wasn't true of course so
you know that so that's another one to worry about
um the smile there is a rhythm to all expressions to tell you whether or not
they're genuine it should be like a wave that gathers and breaks on the shore so
with a smile and you can practice this yourself or look in a mirror but the way
a smile really works if it's truly a smile is that it has this upswing but
it's not such an upswing like it's a light bulb going off you know that's
that's just too much too quick does it go on for too long is it the Energizer
Bunny of social smiles a true smile will last about two to three seconds yes
someone laughs or smiles longer than that there's a really good chance of
brown-nosing you so that's not believable
and the last thing is this the smile just drops off the face that's what I
call the guillotine smile it's just done gone so it should gather like a wave
break and let go so that's another one that's really important another one to
worry about is people trying to go to a poker face they try to act totally
camouflage mode like I'm not going to show anything because anything I show or
reveal that I'm actually not being honest so they should stay relaxed
enough to be animated and still in the game dropping out of the game is not
comfortable so I would say all the four of those are very much to be kept in
mind oh and one more contempt sometimes people will smirk at themselves for
giving an answer they don't believe in don't trust and or they might show
because I believe they don't really respect the person asking the question
like you don't deserve the truth so I'm not going to bother to give it to you
and you're not smart enough to figure out they're not giving you the truth so
there are there are five different things and they could happen with
different people and each of them yet to keep them in play of them Jack Nicholson
a few good man you can't handle the truth and yes has that certain look
his face absolutely loathing yes I'm Tom Cruise at moment yeah it's
an interesting tell that you can provide obviously not with the shouting because
most people know how to contain at the some degree but that certain scowl that
you start off with that you may contain on the interviews an obvious tell on
both sides of the equation oh absolutely because you're gonna have to have some
compatibility to make this work over time and Trust and the lack of trust is
the most reliable indicator that a marriage will fail so it's not gonna
work so well between employer and employee either it's well worth paying
attention to it's well worth avoiding if you can
naturally avoid it and what I tell people has been firms higher competence
is only one variable that they look for oh absolutely
self confidence character chemistry maybe a little bit of character yzma
because charismatic people always be better than non-charismatic s-- all of
which add up to We Trust he or she that we don't have to worry about them
they're low maintenance and don't fit in pretty nicely yeah but if you don't mind
let's now flip it to the other direction because you also should be interviewing
the interviewer you should know whether or not I have a shot at a meaningful job
here a job that will really use my skills that I'll feel a chance to be
engaged to I and what kind of culture am i stepping into they probably got a lot
of flack for it but I remember USA Today had a piece some years ago where they
interviewed a whole bunch of employees and they were asking what kind of
corporate culture they had and I think it was 75% of all the corporate cultures
were negative places where there was too many chiefs too few Chiefs you know
passive aggressive behavior so on so I think you want to actually have a
question back of you know how does this organization work what's the flavor the
culture this organization and really pay attention to how the boss reacts are
they symptomatic of the same problem it's the negative environment you get
the good Apple who's disgusted this
might be a good moment for discussed do they are they disgusted by the culture
around them but they're a little island of tranquility trying to do it better I
think that's really important I mean there are jobs you don't actually want
and as you should know that ugly the hard thing on an interview with asking a
question like that everyone knows that job hunters are posturing to demonstrate
that they fit the role in other words shall we say politely exaggerating lying
but is a former headhunter it took me a while but eventually I figured out my
clients were lying too yes yes and I realized that I'll be slowing it down I
realized that one day when it came to me. I'd never heard of an employer saying to
a job hunter you know Dan I got a real problem and you know my predecessor got
fired and her predecessor got fired it doesn't take a genius to figure out
my butt's on the line I need to hire someone to help me save it instead they
all put on these happy smile button faces other terrific team of people a
great organization we all are rowing the boat in the same direction I mentioned
and unfortunately the family in the thanksgiving movies that every year
isn't one of those longings so it's hard to really detect it but but I have some
suggestions actually good so so one is the CEO tends to set the culture in the
environment I mean to a pretty substantial extent they're going to be
if it's a company of any size there's gonna be photographs perhaps even video
online that you can find at them they do media interviews they're in front of the
employees in front of the investors they have photographs taken if this looks
like someone's gonna make you walk the plank there's a good chance of that sort
of CEO has driven that kind of mentality down through the ranks
do they have an annual employee meeting what's the satisfaction levels with how
the annual employee meeting with when I was at a major utility I was in charge
of the annual employee meetings I changed the whole format what I
discovered to my delight is that even though the CEO had a real
hard-ass kind of reputation he had a drawl you from Maine he had drilled New
England kind of sense of humor but he really had a good sense of humor and if
you let it come out if I said we need to get away from a typecast kind of annual
employee meeting we need to let you show who you are a bit more we got a 20
percent lift in the satisfaction with the annual employee meetings and I did
that cuz i interjected some innovation to it so so I think that's a that's a
possibility do they have a annual employee magazine besides one for the
investors Ben & Jerry's has an annual employee magazine that tells you
something about the company that they would take time to celebrate the
employees besides just saying to the investors you made some more money with
your stock dividend this year so I agree with you that you get a lot of BS
answers and a lot of papering over but I think there are some avenues that are
polite enough that you can still pursue some of them on your own and some of
them potentially in the interview at least it's signals to the person hiring
you that you do care about the environment you're stepping into and it
might show you've done a little bit of homework and there's never enough never
bad and you'll notice folks these are these are indirect ways of gaining
information not a direct way if you go in directly you're at risk of what I was
talking about if you go in an indirect way and look for the behavior of the
institution when no one's looking in effect you find out more of the truth
yeah there's a wonderful life from Emily. Dickinson the poet said tell the truth
but tell it slant lest everyone go blind the perpendicular head on the salt
saying is this an awful place to work. I've heard that from other people I
don't think it's going to go a long ways you're not gonna learn a whole lot more
but you will learn that you're not gonna be hired that's the only thing you guys
really learn from that backside of attempt dan this is fabulous thank you
how can people find out more about you the book and other things that you're
involved with sure well let's go ahead and start with the book so I have a
website it's called Jan Hill dot sensory logic calm as in your five senses
and on the website I have a video about the book and you can read the front
cover back cover and so you get a little bit of the blurb and get a better sense
of it so that's one way to start but I also have other books out there in
motion ah mcc's was chosen by ad ages one of the top ten must read books of
2009 so I think that can be very useful it's kind of like a Bible of all the
ways in which emotions apply my company sensory logic has its own website and I
am almost certainly going to be starting these 2-day seminars in various cities
around the country so you can go to my website check periodically and you will
see that we're starting to do EQ and facial coding training for people anyone
who's in a people-centric you know role or the fact of the matter is we're all
in the in the b2b business business of people every day whatever your job might
be so I would suggest you go there and sure there's the usual LinkedIn profile
and so forth and so on dan this has been great thank you oh
thank you Jeff and folks we'll be back soon with someone else and more I'm Jeff
Alton the big-game hunter if you're interested in my coaching you visit my
website which is the big game for us you'll see a button on the site that
says schedule you can schedule time for free discovery call schedule time for
coaching for me to answer your specific questions I would love to help you also
there's a ton in the blog this points over 8,000 posts that you can watch
listen to you will read that will help you in a variety of different ways
professionally and if you're watching this on YouTube subscribe to my channel
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Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter

Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, all as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with more than 2200 episodes and “The No BS Coaching Advice Podcast” and is a former member of The Forbes Coaches Council. “No BS JobSearch Advice Radio” was named a Top 10 podcast for job search. is also a Top 10 YouTube channel for job search.

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