Now, I’m finishing up this week of shows from Job Search Radio, the early days. And this was one of my favorites: an interview with Shally Steckerl, who was a sourcing expert, on finding where the hidden job market is. It is, it was one of my favorite interviews. Hope you find it helpful, hope it helps you too. And if you’re interested in my coaching, connect with me on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/thebiggamehunter. Mention that you listened to this video, or listened to the show, I should say, because frankly, I like knowing that I’m helping some folks. And also because I’m bumping up against LinkedIn’s limitations for first-level connections, I’m only accepting connection requests from people in the US who are not in certain fields like insurance or financial services or real estate, or overseas, unless they make mention of listening to the show or watching my videos. Sorry about that folks, but like I said, LinkedIn limits the number of connections that you can have, and this is my way of dealing with it. Now with that, let’s get going.

Hi, this is Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter, and welcome.  I start off each show with a job search tip that I call the “job search insider.” And today I want to talk with you about expanding your vision of the kind of firms that you look for. You see, the propaganda’s pretty obvious as to how people get taught about how they should look for work. And the advantage is always to the large firm. After all, large firms always offer stability, right? Well, wrong. If anything, if you look at the statistics from this recession, yes, small companies have gone out of business, without question. But large firms have laid off hundreds of thousands of workers. Many of them have sold off operations, they’ve moved businesses to private equity, and many smaller firms, frankly, have been the growth engine for the hiring that’s been going on.

By focusing on only large firms, what often happens is you put yourself in the position of competing with so many people for jobs when there’s so many other firms out there that you could be looking for, looking at. So again, don’t neglect smaller or mid-sized firms because you think that they offer stability. Experience tells me that they don’t, and that many of the new jobs being created are being done by the smaller and mid-sized firms.

So that’s my tip for today. Let me introduce my guest for this time, which is Shally Steckerl, who’s the president of The Sourcing Institute and has 18 years of sourcing and recruiting experience. Shally’s background is building enterprise recruiting engines for Fortune 500 brands, helping them efficiently find unfindable talent. He’s the author of the industry textbook, The Talent Sourcing and Recruitment Handbook. Shally, welcome to Job Search Radio. Great to have you on.

Shally Steckerl: Thank you, and an honor and a pleasure to be here. Appreciate the invite.

Jeff Altman: You’re welcome, and I’ve been a fan of yours, oh, for the longest time, back to JobMachine.

Shally Steckerl: Wow, thank you.

Jeff Altman: You’re welcome. You know, with that kind of an introduction, I just want to alert our listeners to the fact that we’re going to focus today on finding the jobs that are not easy to find. Going out there and where do you find all these jobs? And I want to encourage you to get something to take some notes with, because Shally is a master at this kind of work. So, where do people start? How do they start finding some of these organizations, Shally?

Shally Steckerl: Yeah, well, you know, I want to bounce off of something that you mentioned during the intro, which was about the large employers being the ones that kind of get all the press and all the juju around, you know, people wanting to go work for them. And I think around the world, that’s very much the case. But I kind of sit on both sides of the fence with that one, I’ve got to be honest with you. Part of me is, my business is to develop the efficient recruiting strategies for those, exactly those companies. But at the same time, I’m the other kind of company. And as a matter of fact, today I just hired a young lady that starts on Monday, that is a recent college grad, and I’ve got a lot of hope that that’s going to turn into a really good opportunity for her and for us.

So, you know, I’m here to tell you that I think a lot of the hiring that goes on is with the small businesses. And it’s just, it just kind of goes unnoticed. And a lot of the growth comes from there. The challenge is, how do you identify those jobs because most of those kinds of companies, including, for example, myself, we don’t have the big budgets to post ads in the big job board distribution networks and all that. It’s not like I can afford to, you know, spend a bunch of money to hire an entry-level person right now. So, how do you find out about those jobs? They’re not, they’re not easy to find, and that’s I think part of what you wanted me to come prepared to talk about today, right?

Jeff Altman: Absolutely, because so often people go to the job boards, they go on, you know, to all the obvious places that you and I know about, and don’t use some of those research tools that you’ve pioneered for so long. So, where’s the starting place that people should begin with?

Shally Steckerl: Well, the challenge with where the starting place is really comes from identifying what you want to do first. Not that I want to get into career advising or consulting, but really, what I, my best advice is always to narrow your field down and find a handful of companies, maybe a list of top 10 companies in your mind that you want to target. Not because of their size and not because they’re the top 10 employers of choice, but because they’re in the business that you want to be in, or they do the things that you want to do. And then focus all of your energy and attention on trying to penetrate those companies by networking in through all of your available resources, including social media and, you know, the friends and family and all that.

So I’m not saying go out and find, you know, the 10 big companies. I’m saying, what do you want to do? If you want to, if you want to sell software, then look at what 10 companies that are really cool, interesting, exciting, that are small or even medium-sized companies, not just the big ones. And where do you go for that? Well, there’s a couple of places that I would recommend going for that.

Something I want to point out though right from the beginning is, part of this is about conducting research around those, identifying those companies. It’s not about finding the jobs. Because as I said, like with the hire that I just made now, that wasn’t a job that was publicly advertised on a job board. Often times, these jobs aren’t, quote-unquote, open to the public, you know, because they’re not really published.

Jeff Altman: So what’s going to happen is once you identify the firm, you may use informational interviews and other forms of networking to get the kind of penetration you need to introduce yourself to that organization.

Shally Steckerl: Exactly, right. So the first thing is, find relevant companies. Then the second thing is, find relevant people at those relevant companies. And it doesn’t matter if it’s a big or small company. Once you have those relevant companies, then you start targeting people for, for networking because when you go in to do networking, it’s, it’s um, I like to refer to it as the mental Rolodex example, or the mental Rolodex exercise. You know, if I, if I go to you and say, “Hey Jeff, who do you know?”, your mind draws a blank. You’re like, “Well, gee, Shally, I know some people, I know a lot of people in fact, but what do you mean who do I know, about what?”

But what if instead I go, “Hey Jeff, who do you know that’s in biotech in Atlanta?” Or, “Who do you know that works in a startup in Boston?” Then, I can, then you can, your mind starts thinking, “Oh, okay. I can narrow it down. Like, first I’m gonna think who do I know in Boston? Who do I know that’s…” And that way, your social networking, in-person and online, is more efficient. So rather than going around asking, “Who do you know that’s hiring?”, instead, “Who do you know that works at this company?” or “Who do you know that works in this sector?” and you can start narrowing the field.

So you find the relevant companies, then you find the relevant people, and you use your network to get closer and closer to those people. And if you’re lucky enough to get an informational interview, that may lead to an introduction to someone else and so on. And in my case, as a matter of fact just today, the informational interview turned into “You’re hired” because the interview went that well. But your question still stands, which is, where do you find those things?

Jeff Altman: And I want to just pause you for a second and say, you sound like a recruiter. This is exactly what we do professionally to find, to network our way from one person to another to another in order to find that one individual our clients are going to want to interview and hire. Beautifully done. Please continue, Shally, you’re doing great.

Shally Steckerl: So there’s a place, there’s a couple of places I would point to. One of them is a company that recently, well maybe not so recently, sold to salesforce.com, and it’s called Jigsaw. It was called Jigsaw when it was sold. Now, I believe it’s just called data.com. The reason I’m pointing you there is because it’s, it’s free use, you can set up an account for free, and it’s a, it’s a barter, an exchange, it’s a, it’s a swap meet of business contacts. What that means is, you bring your contacts in, enter them into the system, and for every contact that you put in, you then are able to get out someone else’s contact.

And it’s a barter system, much like I don’t know back in the day if anybody remembers Rolodex parties, where business people would get together for an hour and, you know, have maybe pizza or whatever, and everybody would bring their Rolodexes with them. And you know, like, “Well, I used to work with IBM but I don’t work with them anymore, here’s a contact at IBM. Do you know anybody at Microsoft?” and then the other person would swap cards. Pretty much that. \par

Now Salesforce owns it, and it still remains free, and you can play for free by swapping contacts, or you can also pay and get the data. So either way, if you want to pay by putting your effort in or pay by putting your dollars in, it’s not very expensive, but either way you get the results. And then what you do is you go in there once you’ve targeted those companies, and find people with job titles that are so close to that, that you know you can get an introduction to the hiring authorities. It’s not going to be necessarily able to find the hiring manager that would be the one that hires you, but you might, of course, but through something like this, for example Jigsaw, you can identify the names of people that are close to that department, then send them, for example, a LinkedIn invite or something or even just an email, “Hey, I want to meet you, I’m looking for an opportunity in this area, want to ask a couple questions”, informational interview, I’m sure you’ve talked about that many times on your show. So that’s a good starting point.

Jeff Altman: And I want to just tell the listeners, I think they just recently dropped the Jigsaw domain and they’re now using data.com exclusively. And when you do that exchange, they’re not looking for the home email address of someone. They’re looking for the professional email address. So you can’t give them a Gmail or a Hotmail account, you have to give them the desk account for them, because otherwise they’re just not going to accept it. And there’s another service that’s similar and I think maybe a little bit better than theirs: ZoomInfo, which I know professionally recruiters use all over the world. And I think they have a way where if you open up Outlook to them, if you’re using Outlook and you open that up to them, they’ll allow you access to their database as well because in effect, what they’re going to do is update their database with your information in there, in order to maintain its relevance. So that’s an alternate service to data.com.

Shally Steckerl: Right. So with that, ZoomInfo doesn’t have a free version except for when you provide these contacts through integrating your email. So that is correct, but you have to basically give up… they’re going to look in your inbox and update all the contact information they have on the people from extracting signature files in your email: first name, last name, email address, job titles for all those people, which might be fine. Just be sure you’re not doing this from your employer and violating any kind of internal corporate employment, you know…

Jeff Altman: Absolutely. Thank you for pointing that out, Shally.

Shally Steckerl: Just, you know, be aware. Then also, the other thing would be, interestingly enough, I’ll give you… actually, I’m going to give you two more. One is LinkedIn, and I’m sure you’re like, “Oh great,” roll your eyes up into your head and go, “Hey, tell me something I haven’t heard, Shally, like really, LinkedIn, seriously?” But what I’m actually going to tell you about LinkedIn is different than what most people are going to tell you about LinkedIn. What I’m saying is, once you’re inside of LinkedIn and you’ve identified, remember the first stage is identify those 10 companies that you want to target, you can choose one of those companies and look them up on LinkedIn.

And what happens is, often those companies, most companies now have a company page, whether that page is a premium page that that company has actually acquired the rights to manage and is updating constantly, or it is a free page that’s been created for that company by LinkedIn. LinkedIn, of course, makes the difference easy to understand. If the company is sponsored, then the company gets to put their content on it. If the company’s page is free, like with a small business like mine, they’re simply just going to list, “Here’s the people that work at this company, and here’s the name of the company,” etc.

But here’s the interesting thing in it: you look for that company, and as you identify a company that you’re interested in, go to their company page. For example, if you were to look at let’s say, ZoomInfo as a company, right? And on their company page, on the right-hand side as you view it, partway down there’s a sort of a navigation menu or bar that begins at the top with how you’re connected to people at this company, and then below there might be, if they’re managing and paying for it, there might be some posts from the company itself. But scroll a little bit lower, and there’s a little box that sort of hides there, and it says, “People also viewed.”

What is interesting about that little box on the right-hand side is that there’ll be six icons of companies that are very similar to that company. What’s important about that is that this is a human-edited database, as opposed to a lot of the other websites that offer information about businesses and they use, for example, SIC codes or some other kind of industry typification or codification system that limits their ability to select whether the company is, for example, in manufacturing or in services. Well, what if they do both? What if they’re in fast-moving goods and in services?

So when you go on LinkedIn and you look up that company, for example as you mentioned earlier ZoomInfo, and you look on the right-hand side under “People also viewed,” you’ll notice InsideView, and OneSource, and Dun & Bradstreet, which all provide business information, and you’ll also notice NetProspex, which is a small startup. That’s neat because that’s probably not a company you would have ever thought of before! But those are the kinds of companies that are hiring for the kinds of jobs that aren’t really very widely published, just because they don’t have the wherewithal and the means to do that. So now you have another, because of your original target company, you now have another company that you can look at, and of course, now go back to everything else you’ve ever been told about LinkedIn and do all the other stuff. But at this point, you now have identified another company.

Jeff Altman: And thus, a person could go out and do research about that firm. And I just want to back up the one thing, one term you used: SIC codes. This is a code that’s been generated to define an industry. I don’t recall the organization that created these codes, but they’re, I think they’re three-digit codes primarily, and correct me if I’m wrong, Shally, that define a firm by its industry. Annoying, useless, only if you’re doing aggressive research do you want to know these things. You can find all the same information through other vehicles.

Shally Steckerl: It’s the US Census Bureau, and it’s the Standard Industrial Classification system, SIC. There are others, there’s a five-digit one, but basically what these do is they put a company into a bucket. Like Xerox is a heavy equipment office manufacturer, heavy office equipment manufacturer. Well, yeah, but they’re also so much more than that. And nowadays, companies are so flexible and so dynamic that there’s not just one code. So that’s why that’s kind of going out of date, out of style. \par

What you’ll find on LinkedIn is that those six icons are there because other people like you that are networking for jobs, for business opportunities, for all kinds of reasons that they’re on LinkedIn, are clicking on those companies because those companies are like the other company that they clicked on. So it’s a kind of a human association game, you know, like word association. If I say “brown,” what do you think? Oh, “chocolate,” or whatever, right?

So that’s what’s happening on LinkedIn is, I say “ZoomInfo” and you say, “Oh, NetProspex.” Well, I didn’t know about NetProspex. Now, guess what I can do? I can take NetProspex’s domain, netprospex.com, and I can go to Google and type in the “related” command: related: (that’s r-e-l-a-t-e-d colon), and then the domain, in this case netprospex.com, without any spaces after the colon. So related:netprospex.com, and then Google will give me back a dozen or so sometimes other websites that are statistically similar based on Google’s PageRank analysis.

So what Google is saying is, “Like this NetProspex, here are a dozen other websites that have a lot of the same content.” And now, from NetProspex, I can see other companies like InsideView, which is another organization, OneSource, which came up earlier, and here’s data.com, which we’ve been talking about before, as well as ZoomInfo, as well as Hoovers. So I’m able to build a target list. Now, I can go into data.com or ZoomInfo or LinkedIn or into my Rolodex or send an email out to all of my friends and colleagues and ask, “Does anybody know anybody that works at NetProspex or at InsideView?” And then I can ask for an introduction. That’s the way I recommend you go about doing it.

Jeff Altman: And if you… it’s beautiful what you’ve laid out for folks, and I hope you’ve been taking notes, gang. And if you haven’t, listen to this audio again. There’s going to be plenty of more information coming. And one thing I just want to mention to the listeners is that there’s a little Chrome extension that makes one part of this easier for folks if you use Google Chrome, and that is if you want to see who’s in your LinkedIn network easily who might work at one of these firms, it’s an extension called “Who Works At.” And it will tell you who in your network works at these firms, so you can reach out to them about a role. It’s a nice little tool.

So now that they have this list, we’re reaching out to folks, trying and doing informational networking with them, and that’s beautiful. Are there other tools or techniques that you can suggest to folks in order to find some of these avenues, the non-job board situations?

Shally Steckerl: Yes, absolutely. So I would say don’t limit yourself to just LinkedIn, because not everybody’s on LinkedIn. There are only 93 million people in the United States on LinkedIn, and of course, you know the population of the United States is far bigger than that. In fact, if you just limited it to people that are employed, that would be at least double that number if not greater. So not everybody’s on there and you’re not going to find everyone for a variety of reasons.

So try other places as well. Chances are very likely that you will find them on Facebook, because a majority of people do have a Facebook account. I’m not saying everyone, there are of course still people who don’t have a Facebook account. But if you can put their name, their first and last name, into Facebook Graph Search, for example, or just… you will be able to find their page, and even if you’re not connected to them, you might see who’s connected to them from you. In other words, second degree or third degree away, a friend of a friend. And you might be able to send them a message. Most people have the messaging enabled.

Now those messages are not emails, they’re Facebook messages that go into their Facebook inbox. So if they’re not using Facebook or don’t log in very much, they may never get it. But it’s at least one other alternative way to contact them, especially if you don’t have an email address or a phone number for the person. And again, use the same kind of pitch as before: “I’m networking, want to meet some people at this company or in this business.”\par

Another thing that you can do is simply inside of Facebook, taking advantage of Facebook’s Graph Search that’s already built-in, which is very intuitive, and it uses natural phrases, natural language. By that I mean, you ask a question the way that you would ask a question verbally to another person. So, for example on Facebook, up in the top bar, you can start typing: “People… people that work at NetProspex.”

Jeff Altman: Interesting.

Shally Steckerl: It’ll… yeah, and it’ll bring back… so you just type “people that work at NetProspex” and it’ll bring back NetProspex’s page, as well as a list of all the people on Facebook that work at NetProspex. And then, here’s the nice thing about it, on the right-hand side, there’s a refinement that you’re allowed to do that allows you to narrow it down by position, so for example, recruiter or VP of sales, right? And you can now search amongst the NetProspex contacts in Facebook for those that have that title.

You can also search by location, say only the ones that are in my state in Georgia, or in a city in Atlanta, or in a hometown, etc. like that, or even how close they are to you. So you could say, “Show me all the people that I know that work at NetProspex,” or “Show me all the people that my friends know that work at NetProspex,” and that would be your second degree, if you will. And you can even go a third: “friends of my friends’ friends,” that’s about as far as you go. You can also find people that are not my friends, that would be strangers, but it might be a little bit more difficult, more challenging to reach them, where it might be easier if there’s someone between you and I, and I can call that person to get introduced to you or email that person to get introduced to you.

But Facebook, because of size and because of the kind of information that they’re putting together intelligently, rather than requiring people to enter it—see, that’s the difference. On Jigsaw or data.com, as you said, I have to put a business card in, and they expect business information. On ZoomInfo, that information is found by their robots, like Google if you will. On LinkedIn, that information is entered by the user. These are three different ways: either I’m giving somebody your information, the web is finding your information, or you’re putting your information in on LinkedIn.

On Facebook, I started by creating the account, but then Facebook is asking everybody else that knows me questions about me and confirming that information and putting it in here. So that’s why once in a while you’ll get a message that says, “Do you know blah blah from so and so or such and such?” or “Did you use to work… Shally just said that you used to work with him, is that true or not?” And when you do that, that starts to build that profile.

So Graph Search is able to capture that information and be a very accurate way to search. So you’ve got yet another avenue at your disposal. Now don’t be afraid that Facebook is social or, “Well, I only have my personal stuff on Facebook.” That’s fine. You can share only what you want to share. You can make sure that your page settings are such that you’re not sharing any photos with people, for example, that you don’t know, or any blog posts or anything. You have full control over what you want to show or not show.

And it’s perfectly okay to ask for an introduction through Facebook, even though you’re not sharing all of your content, because it’s much the same way in a business meeting. When you show up to a business meeting, you talk about your abilities, your skills, and you ask questions about the company. You don’t necessarily talk about your personal life. It might come up, but it’s not usually appropriate. So it’s understood that when you’re talking business, it doesn’t matter if it’s on Facebook or on LinkedIn, you keep it to business. So it’s okay to use Facebook—totally okay to use Facebook—to approach people and network. That’s what it’s for.

You might even find high school colleagues, you know, that were high school alumni with you that are now people who work at that company. And now you’ve kind of, you know, you got two wins: one, you’re reconnecting with someone that you used to know, and two, you’re getting introduced to a company. Or maybe someone that was part of your sorority or fraternity or a volunteer organization or something like that, and that helps you make that introduction. So identify the company, then look for the people, get the introductions, and then keep networking off of that.

Jeff Altman: So Shally, so far you’ve spoken about using services like data.com, and I added in ZoomInfo, and then we moved to LinkedIn and using company pages to find relevant information about similar firms to the ones that you’ve targeted, and now we’ve moved over to using Facebook to really network effectively. How does Twitter fit into all of this? And I just want to say, we have a limited amount of time, so excuse me if we keep this concise, okay?

Shally Steckerl: Absolutely. Well, Twitter does fit in, but Twitter is a little bit less… it’s a little bit more shallow of a relationship, okay? So on the scale of depth of relationships, you have the ability to have a much deeper relationship on Facebook than on LinkedIn, because on Facebook you can have social, you can have games and interactions that are outside of that. LinkedIn is kind of strictly business.

Twitter is even shallower than that because, you know, I may follow you and you may not know who I am, I may be a complete stranger, or you may follow me and I may not know who you are. So it’s a much lighter environment, and it’s also louder. It’s lighter and louder, which means that the gig on Twitter is to be able to be found, and to use Twitter as a way to grow your network.

But when you go to search on Twitter, it’s very limited because you only can find the information that person has either tweeted or is on their bio. You can go to search.twitter.com and look for people that have a particular job title or company name in their title, and also you can do a radius search by location. But that only works if that person on their Twitter identified that location. So if I on my Twitter account typed in “Atlanta, Georgia,” then you might find me. But since it’s a blank entry form, I can actually type in, you know, “third planet from the sun,” and that’s what shows up, which won’t come up obviously when you’re searching for Atlanta, Georgia.

And I might have my job title and my company name, or I might choose not to. So Twitter can be a little bit too far removed, but you do want to, if you are using it, you do want to have your information on there and follow people that are in that industry.

So the way that you use Twitter for this is, you’re looking to connect with people in the, you know, in the content management industry. Well, great, follow really good, top-notch thinkers in content management on Twitter, and then you have what’s called the halo effect. Because I’m hanging out with smart people in content management, other people think that I’m also a smart person in content management or I’m associated with them, and you ad-hoc network that way. So that’s the way that you can use Twitter.

Jeff Altman: Beautiful. Is there one last tip for the audience that you have for them that will help them find or network into some of these harder-to-find situations, the non-job board situations?

Shally Steckerl: Yes. You probably have a ton of spreadsheets on your computer of, um, lists of people. This could be, you know, from a, from a sales lead list or something like that, business cards that you scanned in over time. You can use that Excel spreadsheet, save it as a comma-delimited or CSV file, and you can upload that spreadsheet into LinkedIn, and Facebook, and Twitter, and many others, by the way. \par

When you do that, for example on LinkedIn, you upload the spreadsheet of, you know, maybe it’s a contact spreadsheet of all the people that you knew at a particular company, or all the alumni from a particular organization, or whatever. When you do that, then LinkedIn will go through there and see if any of the emails match IDs of people that already have LinkedIn accounts, and give you the option of saying, “Hey, assuming that you already know this person because you’ve got their email address, which means you probably know them, would you like to send them an invitation to connect?” And now you’re simply sending an invitation to connect to someone that you already know or used to know without having to do all the necessary legwork of finding them. Same thing happens on Facebook and Twitter, you can import that.

Really, all you need is a list of first name, last name, and emails, in fact, quite frankly, just the emails, that’s what they look for. But if you have first name, last name, and email in any kind of system—a CRM system that you used when you were, you know, selling real estate, or whatever—anything that is a pile of email addresses, you can put that into these systems and ask the system to recognize people that you already know.

And in some of them, like on LinkedIn and Facebook, you can even scan through your Yahoo and Gmail to look for contacts inside of there, like we were talking about with ZoomInfo. And you might find… for example, last time I did this, not that long ago, I found 800 people in my Gmail that I had not connected with! These are people that have emailed me, we’ve had exchanges with, we’ve had conversations, but it never occurred to me to ask them to connect on Facebook. So all of a sudden, now I got 800 new connections on Facebook, and they’re people that I already know, but wasn’t connected to. So that’s another tool that’s in your arsenal.

Jeff Altman: So folks, what Shally and I have been talking about here is mobilizing all your resources. Mobilizing all your relationships in some way, shape, or form so that you can do the legwork for the research that you do. The research starts off with you figuring out the kind of organization you want to work for and what you want to do for them. That’s the starting place that Shally started off with. And then from there, using all these tools that he’s been talking about, find people with whom you can do informational interviews or who you may know well enough already to ask for introductions.

And when you do those introductions, do not hesitate to ask at the end of the chat with someone: “Is there something I need to know or something you want to tell me about what I’ve done here that would be helpful for me in my job search?” Asking for help from people is a big part of what gives them a good feeling about this process. Always ask for advice, don’t always act as though you’re just there for yourself.

Shally, we’ve been racing through a ton of material. Thank you so much for making time to do this and, folks, if you haven’t gotten it all, listen to the show again. He’s giving you so much to work with, that’s terrific. Before we go, Shally, um, tell folks how they might be able to get a copy of your book.

Shally Steckerl: Well, my book is on Amazon and Barnes & Noble, and in most bookstores. It’s called The Talent Sourcing and Recruitment Handbook, and it’s a 500-page textbook. If you are interested in becoming a recruiter, this is your textbook into doing that. And we also have on our website, thesourcinginstitute.com, we have an online curriculum that’s a diploma or certificate program that will teach you how to be a recruiter if you’re interested in that. But the book is The Talent Sourcing and Recruitment Handbook, and you can get it from Amazon, or if you want a short URL, here’s an easy one to remember: shally.me/shallybook. shally.me/shallybook.

Jeff Altman: So that’s today’s show. I hope you find it helpful, and if you did, here are a few ways to get even more from me. First of all, visit my website, www.thebiggamehunter.us. I have several thousand blog posts there that you can watch, listen to, or read to help you find your next job.

Connect with me on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/thebiggamehunter. Once we’re connected on LinkedIn, you can message me about coaching you, speaking with me about a resume or LinkedIn profile critique, help with a salary negotiation, my trusted advisor services, as well as scheduling me through Magnifi or for prestoexperts.com. Like you, I don’t work for free.

I’ll be back tomorrow with more. In the meantime, have a great day.

Be great!