Career Coach Office Hours: September 27 2022 | JobSearchTV.com
By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
I answered questions about job search, hiring staff, management, career transition, as well as workplace issues. Join me at 1 PM Eastern on Tuesdays and Fridays on LinkedIn or YouTube (JobSearchTV.com channel). You can also message me on Linkedin before the show and I will answer it, too.
Finding The Career That Fits You
03:27
Why do some recruiters act as if they love candidates and then ghost them? Two years ago, I did an interview with a highly ranked employee. It seemed well I have to assume the employer, it seemed well, he said I’d be a great match. We even talked for 35 additional minutes, and then he disappear. So I’m not sure if this is a corporate recruiter or a third party. I’m going to assume corporate recruiters and corporate recruiters don’t hire people. They screen people on behalf of a hiring manager. And thus, what probably happened is he or she really enjoyed the conversation with you. They thought you were interesting. They thought you might be qualified for the role. They covered a lot of things with you. It’s also possible you talked a lot. I wasn’t there. I don’t know. I’m just putting this out as an option. And thus, you know, we could be in a situation where someone felt the need to go into more detail with you about things, and then they couldn’t deliver you to their internal client. So why do they act as though they love you? Because it’s a form of manipulation and salesmanship on their part. ‘Oh, we think you’re terrific. I’m sure I can get you that interview’ and then they can’t? Because they don’t make the decision; the hiring manager does. So why does this happen? They said you’d be a great fit and a great match. Yeah. They do it in order to persuade you and to make you feel interested. So that’s why it’s done.
05:36
How can we kill the ATS? And the answer is you can’t. On their side of this, they view the ATS as a way that helps them with government reporting, it helps with tracking internally everything has been over through the system. The however, is you can do a better job of getting through the ATS. And these systems are set up pretty simply. One way that they’re set up is they want to see the keywords that are in the job description that you’re applying to. So they want to see identical language. They don’t want to see fuzzy language. They want to see it earlier in the document rather than later in the document. Yes, this means you have to tailor your resume to every job. But right now, submitting a resume through an ATS, that one generic resume, doesn’t work for most people. The way to get more interviews, if you’re going to apply, which by the way, never, ever apply for a job through an applicant tracking system. It’s called the black hole for a reason, right? So why are you wasting your time doing that? Network your way into the organization. Find someone who can introduce you to a hiring manager, or point you to the hiring manager so this way, you can get your resume directly in front of them. And I know to you it’s useless, because you’re not the customer to them. You’re not the customer. The employer is the customer. They’re the ones writing the check.
07:18
Is there a list of non-ATS companies? No, your biggest shot is with smaller firms that wouldn’t have an ATS. But remember, larger ones are subject to government reporting requirements. So that’s a data collection process. That data also allows them to demonstrate to the government they are not conducting themselves in a racist or biased manner. So again, you’re not the customer. The employer is the customer. And they use this to CYA– cover their derriere– with the federal government in the United States to protect them from problems. So sorry, there is no list of non-ATS companies. You might try a Google search– companies that don’t use an ATS’s. Let’s see what turns up. I don’t think you’ll find it. Yes, you’re the commodity. Got it. And I’m the commodity. you’re absolutely right. But they write the check. Now, someone else can also get that job. And from their standpoint, once you’re applying through an applicant tracking system, you are a commodity. It’s true. It’s absolutely true. And as a commodity, you’re devalued. And you’re treated in a devalued way. Go around the applicant tracking system.
08:50
The applicant tracking system is like the bouncer in a nightclub. It’s there to block the door to people that they don’t want to let in. The backdoor is where someone lets you in. That’s the preferred way. A third way is the side door. The side door is where they’re drawn to you. You’ve done something magnetic that makes them reach out to you. But like at a nightclub, you never want to deal with the bouncer right? But you’re trying to deal with the bouncer. Do they negotiate with you? If you give them some money, they’ll let you in. But the fact of the matter is they’ve got their rules there. They’ve got their list. You don’t get through the bouncer. So I wish it were different. It would have been a lot easier. As a recruiter. I remember the days we could just call someone on the phone and say, ‘I want to schedule an interview for this person. They fit your requirements. It was easy there. But everyone now uses ATS because they’ve got to keep data. So So sorry, I wish I had a different answer.
10:13
I feel with increasing age I become less eligible for jobs. Is my fear valid? I’m not sure how old you are. I’m not sure where in the world you are, because in some cases, being older is considered preferred. As you go up the chain of command in an organization, being older is preferable. After all, there are very few 21 year old CTOs, right? There are very few 28 year old SVPs unless they’re in small companies, and unless they’re in small companies. So age has a degree of validity. For more senior roles, there comes a point where, like a bell curve, you start to crossover, and there’s a descent that occurs. There’s no specific age for when that descent the curves. 50 year old programmers are not considered valuable. They’re considered past their prime. 60 year old accountants, much the same thing. By a certain point, there’s the expectation that you’ve led, you’ve managed, you’ve run an organization, and then you’re looking for a way out of that, as time progresses. So ageism exists. Let’s just acknowledge that. But part of it is, if someone’s too old for the role that they’re in, by whatever standard the interviewer has, you wind up in a situation where people will consider you ripe–past your prime. Like the date on a milk container, you’re past the expiration date, and thus, bias starts to come into the equation. It’s not about whether you are qualified, but that they have the idea that too senior for this role. What’s wrong with you? And that’s the thinking process, the What’s wrong with you becomes hard to defeat. So, I hope this was helpful. Again, I don’t know your age. And I don’t need to know your age to answer that question. If you want to ask me something else, by all means, feel free.
13:03
The fourth way is the fourth way is to declare them a biased job crushing entity that needs to be removed. It does not. If you want to take the time to do that, by all means, do that. But you know, you’re dealing with an applicant tracking system. And by definition, I not sure t,hat it’s biased. Job crushing? I don’t know if it’s job-crushing. Humanity crushing by all means, but you know. Most people have gotten used to this. After all, they work in organizations that operate with rules and procedures, that are more about CYA than getting stuff done. No argument there. So you can do that if you want. But I think it takes away from the time you could spend finding the role that you want. Your choice. Your choice,
14:16
Should you basically expect any employee you don’t give a promotion or raise to to quit? Quit management. Quit the workplace. So the answer is employees get a message from the fact that they’re not getting a raise and they’re not being promoted. Now if no one’s being promoted, and management can announce that no one’s getting a promotion this year, we don’t have that kind of a hierarchy, we’re relatively flat. So you’re going to remain in your title probably for another year, maybe two. That becomes a way that they can communicate how they structure their organization for a raise. If they don’t communicate about a raise, well, that says, you know, you’re in a situation where maybe they can’t afford raises. Or if you’re the one or among a few people who don’t get a raise, okay? There’s a message in that. I wouldn’t necessarily quit. I’d find another job. I’d look for a job on their dime, and come to a decision about which serves me best– the existing firm, or another firm. You do what’s right for you. But the message, ultimately in not getting a raise, in not getting a promotion, if all employees, you wind up in a situation where no one’s getting advanced, well, you’re not isolated, I’d still look for another job. Because inflation is as high as it is. And most people don’t understand it’s not 8.4%. When you take taxes into the equation, you have to earn more than 10% to just break even. Everyone’s worked for a month this year, for free, in order to deal with inflation. So yes, I would expect that people will start looking for other things and leave. And if that’s what you want, that’s perfect. They’re going to leave of their own volition. You don’t have to fire them. You don’t have to be the bad guy here. You can just simply say, we’re not giving out raises to people at your level, and expect people are going to leave. Scott in
Recruiters Are Not Your Friends
17:02
The quiet quit. The one thing about the quiet quit is that’s for an existing employee. It’s not for new hires. You’re not dealing with the applicant tracking system. When you’re doing a quiet quit, that’s about you and doing minimally viable work and putting up with your current firm. It’s not about the next firm. It’s not about interfacing with an applicant tracking system. Yeah. And your existing firm. If you’re not happy with the fact that you’re not being considered for other roles, you should start looking at other things. Well, then you’re onto the applicant tracking system.
17:41
What can you do when you get ghosted for a job interview? I’m going to assume you’re the job hunter here. And as the job hunter, you want to flush them out, and you don’t want to go, ‘Hey, you stood me up. ‘You don’t want to be rude to them. We all make mistakes, even you. So what you can do is send them a message through whatever the medium is that you’ve been communicating with them– phone, email, text, WhatsApp, whatever it is, and just simply say, ‘are you okay? We were scheduled for an appointment at one o’clock today. I was there. You weren’t. I just want to make sure you’re okay.’ You’ll get some sort of response. ‘I’m so sorry. I had an emergency.’ They’ll make excuses just like candidates make excuses but you’ll flush them up, which is what you’re trying to do. You’re going to make them feel guilty, which is good. You’re not going to be angry, because that gives them an excuse for blaming you and being happy that they stood you up. So I’ll just simply say, ‘are you okay,’ is one of the best subject lines of an email I used to used when I did recruiting and just makes them feel guilty for having stood you up.
19:10
Is it possible to be both technical and managerial at the same time as an IT professional? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, so many organizations have these hybrid roles set up where people function in both dimensions. So yes, it clearly can be the case. And, you know, it’s not the same as being committed in one direction or another. So, in some organizations, when you’re in a hybrid role, you’re not valued as much as you are in the whole management role, or in the all technical role for that matter. So I’ll just simply say yes, it’s definitely possible.
20:01
What does it mean when a hiring manager says, we are still in process and recruitment? We’ll reach out for an update very soon. I reached out to get an update. Is it positive or rejection? They’re avoiding you. They’re avoiding an answer. What they’re basically saying is ‘don’t call us; we’hll call you.’ You reached out for an update. They’re not ready to tell you anything yet. They’re saying they’ll be in touch with an update soon. No commitment on their part. Or I will also tell you that they’re dating other people. They’re still interviewing. They’re not ready to make a commitment to anyone yet. Okay?
20:56
What’s the truth of the idea being blackballed in an industry? Are you aware of this occurring? No, it’s rare, because the communication between firms isn’t as strong as people are led to believe. Now, don’t get me wrong. If you wind up in a newspaper account for something that you did or didn’t do. Yes, everyone knows about you. And you can be blackballed. So for example, the quantitative analyst who walks out with a trading model to go to another firm and is taken out in handcuffs by the police or the FBI. Yeah, that person can get blackballed. A person is caught trading using a model that a firm has to trade for their personal account. Yep, you know, you wind up getting caught and fired and you get blackballed. It becomes a story in local media or the story started occurring conversationally about ‘Did you hear? We just fired someone?’ And people are in the bars talking. And the story gets out and yes, you screwed yourself. It tends to be more about illegality than it tends to be about you being late for an interview or didn’t accept my job offer. I’m gonna blackball them? ‘What was your offer for? Well, I wouldn’t take that job.’ So that kind of stuff, there’s no blackball. Now, agencies threatened this all the time. ‘We’re gonna get you blackballed. You’ll never work again.’ It’s BS. That’s BS, because they don’t have the clout to do that. They may influence a particular organization, or more likely the specific manager or firm to not talk to you. But to get you overall blackballed? No. Doesn’t exist. Won’t exist, because, frankly, people are talent starved. They need people for the organization. Just because one firm has a bad experience doesn’t mean another firm won’t have a great experience. And it’s a question of what are they being blackballed for? For most people? It’s not reasonable. So don’t sweat it really.
23:29
When a manager says, I don’t know what I’m doing, how should an employee respond? Try this one. Okay, what can I do to help you? What can I do to help you. I want to make sure that I can help you get over this hurdle? What don’t you know anything about? So what can I do to help you. That’s the simplest way an employee can respond. And then that employee can mobilize a small team around that person to get them the support that they need. So you know, you can be an ally, because managers this way, or you can, after you’ve done that, ‘I didn’t mean that! I didn’t mean that really! ‘Don’t say stuff like this; it doesn’t present you in the best possible light. We’re here to support one another. You’ve helped me in the past, I was here to help you.’ So I’ll just simply say, if a manager ever says ‘I don’t know what I’m doing,’ offer support and help, just like you’d hoped they would offer you.
Job Search Advice for Students
24:46
I’m just going to remind you, folks, if you’ve got a question about job search, hiring, management leadership, dealing with a workplace issue, career transition, or one advice Have some sort of put your comments or questions to chat to be very happy to answer. Also, visit my website the big game hunter.us. the scheduled time for a free discovery call scheduled time for a coaching session. Find that about my blog, which is more than 12,000, searchable postman that you can watch listen to or read that will help you find work more quickly. Also, also, I’m just going to remind you, subscribe to job search TV on YouTube. Download the app on Amazon, watch me on binge networks that TV which goes to more than 300 streaming services, and subscribe to no BS job search advice radio, and Apple podcasts, Spotify, which is a video podcast, Google Play Amazon music anywhere you listen to podcasts, I pretty much got this cover. And lastly, connect with me on LinkedIn or follow me on LinkedIn and linkedin.com forward slash iron forward slash the big game hunter. Let’s see. Now I’m going to mention one more thing here. And that is I believe this is still available for free. And that is a there’s a new book that was released. It’s a PDF of a book called What we got wrong. Sorry. What we got wrong about business. It’s available as a download at the big game hunter.us forward slash raw. And you can go there there’s no, you’re not going to suddenly wind up on a mailing list getting tons of emails. No, it’s just get the download growing joy. Okay. TJ productions?
27:01
How do you handle the lack of communication in the workplace? You know, some places are quiet places. No one talks. No one says anything. It’s unfortunate. It is the way it is sometimes and that has an impact. Now, I’m not sure what level you’re at within that organization but the simplest way to start doing it is ‘I think we could get more done. If w e took some regular time for connecting with one another and getting clear about tasks, responsibilities, status, whatever the area of issue is. I’m not talking about doing this on the fly, I think it’s important enough to put it into our calendars and do this on a regular basis because I’m finding I’m losing track of things. And it would be so helpful if I knew what was going on in your department with whom I interact or with you with my interface, and not just wait for you to lob something over to me that you need to have addressed because I’ve got multiple priorities to address. I know this is something that existed with a coaching client of mine, who wound up in a situation where there was a peer who complained that my guy wasn’t doing enough for him, but never told him what he needed to have done until the last minute. And then, you know, when logged in at the last minute, my guy had to respond by saying, ‘you know, I have other priorities’ I want to help you but I can’t do it this instance, because I’ve got something for the chairman right now I have to do. So I can get to this in two days.’ ‘But but But!’ ‘You tell the chairman that you are more important than she is. And let’s see if that works. ‘Okay. And you have to force it. You have to speak up, you have to explain why improved communications matter. And from that, you have a chance. And culturally, they’ll revert. And you’re going to have to bring this up as a subject repeatedly. Because they don’t have a habit of doing this. So that’s your launch point. And when they start to try and do it, you praise the heck out of them. People love to hear that they did the right thing. ‘He was really helpful to you and it made so much of a difference.’ Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You get the point. In
30:01
In the hiring process, whose responsibility is it to call and verify references provided by the candidate? Is it the hiring manager or recruiter or HR? Or someone else? The answer is, it depends. Some firms even go so far as to use the external recruiter to do it for them. I know I did it for one of my clients. And I would write the report using the HR person’s name in the report. Whose responsibility is it to call? Sometimes they farm the work out to an external firm. They farm it out to an external firm to handle it. It can be HR. It’s rarely the hiring manager. But more likely the recruiter, someone within the department are more likely than a manager I’m sorry, an external firm that does reference checking.
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ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with over 2400 episodes.
Are you interested in 1:1 coaching, interview coaching, advice about networking more effectively, how to negotiate your offer or leadership coaching? People hire me to provide No BS career advice whether that is about a job search, hiring better, leadership, management or support with a workplace issue. Schedule a discovery call at my website, www.TheBigGameHunter.us
My courses are available on my website, www.TheBigGameHunter.us/courses The courses include ones about Informational Interviews, Interviewing, final interview preparation, salary negotiation mistakes to avoid, the top 10 questions to prepare for on any job interview, and starting a new job.
I do a livestream on LinkedIn, YouTube (on the JobSearchTV.com account) and on Facebook (on the Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter page) Tuesdays and Fridays at 1 PM Eastern. You can send your questions about job search, hiring better, management, leadership or to get advice about a workplace issue to me via messaging on LinkedIn or in chat during the approximately 30 minute show.
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