EP 2127 So often, people develop a mindset that can only be described as “stinkin’ thinkin'” or “doom and gloom.” It doesn’t serve you. In today’s interview with Lisa Rangel, we continue the discussion we started yesterday about how to shift that mindset and recalibrate.
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Lisa Rangel 13:59
For your adult child or your coworker, of course not, so just easier said than done, I know that and I say that as someone who some days doesn't want to get up out of bed and who some days feels the weight of the world and I can't fix it, so I empathize as much as I can but we just got to zero in on, what is exactly the task in front of us and if the task in front of us is to send an email to a hiring manager then that's the task in front of us today, if that's the only thing somebody who is really down in the dumps gets done that day that's a victory, so it's just boil it down to one really simple thing. Typically, when you do the one thing I find that it snowballs into getting a few more things done but frankly, if you get that one thing done and that's it that day then that's still a win, you just start again tomorrow.
Jeff Altman 14:57
But I got so much more time here, I could be doing more stuff, what should I be doing? You know and I know I deal with that.
Lisa Rangel 15:04
I know, doing nothing is an action. I've learned in COVID, doing nothing is a box checking activity on my list sometimes, we have to be okay with doing nothing sometimes because it really fuels us and rests our soul, rest our minds or rest our heart and then it gives us the energy to do that next right thing that we have to do for ourselves, it sounds overly simple but I have allowed myself to sit on the couch, I've allowed myself to just play on my phone, I have allowed myself to take a nap at two o'clock in the afternoon. I've allowed myself to sleep in, I've allowed myself not to go to the gym that day, I've allowed myself not to go for a run that day, I've allowed myself not to do that for a week, just the next day you start over and that's it but I think we have to be kinder with ourselves, I have my list of things I was going to accomplish in COVID like, learn a language, learn this, learn that and I'll be honest with you, all those extra things I haven't really done and that's okay but I've done a lot of other things, I've helped other people and I just tried to count the wins versus the things I didn't do.
Jeff Altman 16:22
Amen, sister. I also think about the anxious situations, why aren't they getting back to me? Like, it seem they're not getting back to me and, how do you encourage people to cope with those situations?
Lisa Rangel 16:42
Yeah, it's challenging, I find that the best, explain again not perfect but the best elixir to waiting is having more things in the pipeline, if you're waiting for somebody to get back to you until you have that signed offer in hand with a start date, you keep reaching out to people and you keep your job search going, it is not over until you're starting in my book and I feel there's a Murphy's Law thing, the minute you stop looking is when everything takes longer. I have literally told people, keep looking and the offer comes in that day, it's by no means a scientific process but I swear energetically, somehow it works. I think when you are focused on, it's like watching a pot of water boil, it always seems, it's taking longer but the minute you go do other things, all of a sudden, you're like a holy crap, I am going to turn that down because boiling is over, so you have to keep looking, you have to keep having conversations, you have to keep starting new things until the offer is in and negotiated, signed with a start date and I feel, it's bad juju, the minute you stop everything before all that stuff happens. I don't know, why it works but I mean between recruiting for 13 years and doing chameleon for resume for, 12 years, I think it'll be 12, it works. Literally just keep doing stuff and I swear the offers come in faster.
Jeff Altman 18:29
I'll let you folks in all...
Lisa Rangel 18:30
Reading this, the kiss of death, you know.
Jeff Altman 18:32
Here's the secret that most of you don't know and I know, Lisa knows this one as soon as you get the first offer, things come out of the wood work and suddenly they're more offers that show up.
Lisa Rangel 18:44
And then the problem you have is, "Oh, I like this one", but it's not moving fast enough, I have this other one. I'm like, that is a lovely problem, so the way I see it, is as I tell my kids, you're never going to be problem free ever in life. We are always going to have problems. You want good problems versus bad problems, right? Good problems are when you have a couple offers and you don't know what to do or they're not exactly what you want but you still have offers, bad problems is no one's getting back to you, no one's interviewing you, no one's giving you an offer, all that stuff, so you want good problems and don't worry about problems you don't have yet. I always check a little bit when somebody is like, "What am I going to do if giving notice", I'm like, you haven't even gotten an interview yet, why are you worried about giving notice already, like just again stay in the moment is best you can worry about, what you got in front of you, not what you don't even have this problem yet, so that can reduce the anxiety that you brought to, I just strongly believe that the universe takes care of itself, if you just keep doing, what's in front of you as best you can that somehow just all kind of works out in ways that you don't even know.
Jeff Altman 20:04
The universe, what did the universe?
Lisa Rangel 20:07
I know, I sound like a woo crazy lady when I say that, but�
Jeff Altman 20:14
However someone wants to phrase it, events take care of themselves. You're worried does nothing to change it.
Lisa Rangel 20:23
No and I only recently learned this phrase but I'm not necessarily religious person but I believe in this phrase, you know rejection is God's protection, so maybe you weren't meant to go to that place even if you made a terrible mistake on an interview that caused you not to be considered anymore, maybe that'll happen as a way of you not getting the offer there because it was going to be a bad experience, if someone is religious then God is everything or he or she is nothing, you have to just trust the process, if you're going through something and you just keep doing it, you're going to eventually land what you need, if you keep making tweaks to your performance, getting feedback, getting help and just keep showing up, keep reaching out, it's going to eventually work out but the key thing is you have to keep trying that's to me, the common element in so many of these successful scenarios is not only do they reframe things and stay in the moment but they keep trying.
Jeff Altman 21:39
One foot in front of the other push and...
Lisa Rangel 21:41
Yeah. Just keep trying, I was a recruiter in New York City when I started recruiting and my second job, I was responsible for getting job orders, so I'd have to then make phone calls. Email wasn't as prolific then, I would have to smile and dial and make appointments, I was doing finance recruiting, so I make appointments with tax directors, controller, CFOs, and pitch the accounting and finance recruitment services that I worked for and come back with jobs hopefully, some days I was pretty good at it, some days were great then every once in a while there was every other salesperson or just in general, every other person, you have bad days and I would be like, "oh my god, I'm never getting another job offer again, never getting another job assignment, again, oh my god and I was pretty much on commission", so I was like, "they're going to fire me and I would go into the twist", I was in Manhattan that was my territory which was already, pretty intense and ruthless to begin with and sometimes I would just go to a top of a building when pre 9, 11, you were allowed to do that.
I would just look at all the windows. I would look at all the buildings and all the windows and I go there behind every windows in every office, how many offices, how many windows and so I was like, I just need one person to say yes and give me a job to work on, so I was like, I just got to keep going to see people behind these windows and eventually they're going to give me a job when you see hundreds and hundreds and 1000s of Windows before you in Vista, all of a sudden you go, "Okay, this is doable because there's like 1000s of Windows and I just need a few" and so that's the analogy I try to convey to people is turn off the news, you don't need to solve the unemployment problem, you don't need to solve the knowledge gap, you just need one job, just keep talking to people, keep asking for referrals and you just need one offer, if you're lucky, you'll get more than one but you really just need one, just keep talking to people keep and then when if that person's like, "Oh, you're not the right person, I can't help you", go, who do you know and get that person's name reached out to that person and just do the constant conversational chain, it really is to me the magic solution to all of this, it's not easy. It's mentally sometimes exhausting but if you can just get yourself the gumption to just reach out to one more person typically, it keeps the (Inaudible) going.
Jeff Altman 24:39
Do one quick anecdote because you mentioned something?
Lisa Rangel 24:42
Jeff Altman 24:42
Who do you know phrase because we are both extra praters and an old girlfriend's of mine used to work at the old marrow lunch, it was the first woman (Inaudible) so it was tough for her and she came home one day with a cassette recorder, a cassette recording of a junket, it was for the top one tenth of the one percent of the producer (Inaudible), I speak with her to justify the production from the junket, she basically said woo (Inaudible), woo I would like to learn, how would you do seven percent of more business in three seconds, I paused and said, why not, okay, turn me on this, you are going to do this with (Inaudible). Is there anyone else you know, who I could be helping, it's always asking for the referrals, who you don't know who and...
Lisa Rangel 25:44
And specifically in this job search context, "Who do you know", that I can speak to that might give me some insight on x, whether it's an industry, a profession, a project, whatever you're not going to ask that person directly for who do you know can give me a job but just, "Who do you know in this field that I can bounce some ideas around or might be able to help me with x or I might be able to help them with x" and just keep the conversation going and if you keep that pipeline full, it eases the anxiety of waiting for something to come because you have other things and frankly when you have other things in the pipeline when that thing comes in, it will help you even negotiate from a stronger position because you know you got other stuff going on, if you're negotiating, going on, "Oh, my God, this is all I got" that's going to come through but if you're negotiating from the standpoint of other things are in the hopper, it's going to be okay, if this doesn't work out that feeling of where you know, what I'll walk away, if it's not right because when you don't have that ability to walk away from something that's when you might be taking something that isn't going to make you happy, so you need to keep things moving to make sure you take something that makes you happy that also may be exam anxiety, too.
Jeff Altman 27:14
Of course and thus folk of, at least has been repeating over and over again, yes, it's important that on the day that you have only the one activity, it's okay to take a break and you have to be moving forward overall, taking actions daily that are going to help move the needle forward, so that you get to the destination you want which is the right next job however you define it, so right next job.
Lisa Rangel 27:44
And take the action and leave the expectations, leave the results up to the universe to take care of it for you. I think where people start to have a lot of anxiety and I noticed some personal experience is when we try to control the results, like "okay, this offer is going to come" and all you can do is show up and do your best on an interview, you don't know, what's going on behind the scenes on that other side of that zoom call. You don't know when that hiring manager hangs up the phone, did the budget get cut, did you know the president bring in their cousin, and now they want to interview that person. The next person you're supposed to interview with is now going on, taking a vacation even if it's a stay vacation at home, they're just not taking calls for a week.
Now your next interview is delayed a week when they didn't know, there's so many things that happen on that other side of the hiring process, as you know, first hand that all you can do is control, what you can control on your side of the interview, so you just have to control for lack of a better word, the action that you can take, you can control, how many times you pick up the phone, you can control how many times you send an email, you can control how you perform and, how you prepare for an interview. You can control if you send a thank you note, you can control if you send a follow up two weeks later but you cannot control, what other people do, and you just got to make sure you do enough of activity of those things you can control.
Jeff Altman 29:20
I'm going to throw a curveball question at you, recruiters love them or leave them?
Lisa Rangel 29:25
Oh love them totally love them. No and a lot of my friends are still recruiters but I don't subscribe to the resume writers or the job training coaches or career coaches that crap on the ATS, crap on the recruiters, crap on everybody and crap on the fact that they only spent six seconds on a resume, everybody's doing their job. You know that recruiters have a job whether their search firm recruiters or corporate recruiters, they have a job, they have metrics, they have the hit, their client is the company they serve and who pays them, there's needs to be improvement in recruiting but that doesn't mean the people doing the recruiting are bad and I think people can own as a job seeker, what they can control, they'll start to see that everybody's doing the best they can.
Jeff Altman 30:36
Including you, including every person in the process. There everyone's trying, it's hard and part of it is, people don't communicate.
Lisa Rangel 30:46
Jeff Altman 30:47
Lisa Rangel 30:48
And they assume the negative on both sides, they assume the negative and they fill in the blanks with information that is not confirmed and yes, we're not meeting face to face, so sometimes there's implied, misunderstandings based on seeing texts and emails and that sort of thing but it is complicated, I think if everybody just took it back a notch and gave everyone the benefit of the doubt, a little bit more than once, it would just take a lot of (Inaudible) out of the world.
Jeff Altman 31:26
Amen sister, Lisa, this has been a lot of fun. How can people find out more about you, your work, everything?
Lisa Rangel 31:34
Everything, so if you like the idea of job landing mindsets, I have a book, "Job Landing Mindset", it's on Amazon, It's also on our one website, joblandingacademy.com and our main business is chameleonresumes.com, so those are two places you can find me. You can also find me on LinkedIn, so....
Jeff Altman 31:59
And tell me the URL on LinkedIn.
Lisa Rangel 32:01
Jeff Altman 32:05
Super and folks, we'll be back soon with more on Jeff Altman in "TheBigGameHunter". Hope you enjoyed today's interview. I sure did.
Lisa Rangel 32:14
And me too.
Jeff Altman 32:14
Good and if you're watching on YouTube, click the small icon in the lower right, it'll allow you to follow me there and in addition, you can visit my website, "Thebiggamehunter.us", I've got a tons in the blog that will help you with job search, charging more effectively, managing and leading workplace related issues. I also want to mention connect with me on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/thebiggamehunter and lastly, I've got a terrific book as well. It's also available as a video course, if you go to thebiggamehunter.us/interviews that takes you to the video course for the ultimate job interview framework. It's also available as a paperback and Kindle book on Amazon. Folks, I hope you have a terrific day and most importantly, being great. Take care.
ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, all as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with more than 2100 episodes, and is a member of The Forbes Coaches Council.
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