Salary negotiation mistakes

Salary Negotiation Mistakes | JobSearchTV.com

I really enjoy doing this presentation to groups because I invite questions into chat, everyone takes me up on it, and, as a result, every presentation is different. On February 4, 2022, I presented this to PSG of Mercer County. This is a trimmed this video to just my presentation. There are more than 40 people online but only those who have their camera on appear.

You may find my answer to “Tell Me About a Time You Made a Productive Change at a Company” helpful.

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[Music]
and i will say that psg of mrsa county
is very pleased to welcome jeff altman
jeff also known as the big game hunter
is a job search coach and interview
coach and he is a former executive
recruiter jeff is the host of no bs job
search advice radio the number one
podcast on apple podcasts for job search
with more than 2300 episodes and it's on
job search tv
youtube amazon and roku
it's also is available in apple tv and
90 plus smart sets through
binge networks dot tv binge networks dot
tv psg of mercer county is very pleased
to welcome back the big game hunter jeff
altman
thank you and good morning david good
morning everyone let me just clarify
something no bs job search advice radio
is the podcast available through apple
podcast spotify as a video podcast
uh amazon music google play wherever you
listen to podcasts job search tv is my
youtube channel
if you use the dot-com
jobsearchtv.com that will take you
directly to the youtube channel you can
watch over over 7 000 videos
about job search hiring more effectively
management leadership dealing with
workplace issues
to me i look at my work as a career
coach holistically it is about your
career and being more effective
today i'm talking with you about salary
negotiation mistakes
and i'll simply say for me i'm gonna
cover all i can cover a lot but what's
most important to me is that i support
you in situations that you've been
involved with maybe make recommendations
of things you might do differently
help you if you're in a negotiation now
navigate situations
and much more so don't hesitate to ask
questions or make comments i want to
address them so that we use this time in
ways that serve you well
okay
now let me just start by saying
the new mistake that people are making
because we haven't needed to address
this for a long long time
is inflation as part of your negotiation
inflation now is at seven percent
that means that for you to take a
position and just match inflation
most of you have to get a 10
raise
just to match inflation
and it seems like there are a lot of
people who are finding work these days
even though there is somewhat of a
disconnect in the labor market
today's jobs report came out plus 450.
great numbers
great numbers
this is the first month of the year that
the bureau of labor statistics adds
people into the report in january they
take them out
because they believe after christmas
people get laid off from jobs they can't
prove were ever created from companies
they don't know ever exist but they've
got the statistical approach
that
they work with so this january is always
a down month
this february is a plus month
unemployment ticked up to four percent
and people are still landing
with that
as you negotiate
even you know if you're working now and
they come to you and say good news
we're matching inflation we're giving
you a seven percent raise
no one's doing that just trying to get
away with five
but no matter
you have to remember inflation
inflation's part of the landscape now
and seven percent is actually on the low
side
i say that because some years ago they
pulled things like gas prices out of the
statistics and a few other things that
pulled out that were particularly
abhorrent to politicians
this is not about one party or the other
it was all politicians
and thus
the seven percent numbers low but that's
the one employers are going to work with
so again you have to take inflation into
consideration as part of your
negotiation so if you're offered the
five percent raise
or the
let's get it
let's do the seven we're going to do the
center and match inflation
you're going to have to politely correct
them and say
7 doesn't quite do it because if i
accept the 7
remember government's gonna take out
forty percent of that
between social security
federal taxes state taxes forget about
local real estate taxes
you know everyone's taxes go up
so government takes a piece of
everything so just to match things you
have to look at it minimally 10
and then work from there
to actually move ahead of the game
that makes sense
only a few of you are on camera so if it
doesn't and you're on camera give me a
thumbs down my feelings aren't hurt
thank you very much
thank you
so that's the first thing that i'm
bringing to people's attention because
frankly we haven't had to deal with
inflation for many years
no matter who the president was
beginning in 2008
democrat republican made no difference
inflation's been a lot lower
so now it's gotten serious
and you need to be responsible to your
friend to yourself
and to your board
wife husband partner the kids the dog
the cat whomever is in your household do
you have a responsibility as the
chairman of the board of that
organization
to not lose sight of what serves you and
your interests
and if this is with an existing
organization
you try to negotiate it up you're not
you become thankful you say thank you so
much i appreciate you making that
correction
and
take the six percent and then you go
look elsewhere
because otherwise you're always running
behind
i wish you were different but someone
will pay you and leapfrog you ahead of
inflation just by changing jobs
and please remember i used to be a
recruiter i'm not one anymore i have no
financial interest in what you do
nor am i going to try to solicit you so
i make a big payday at the end
by placing you with a client
so remember you are the chairperson of
the board of your own organization
and as such you have a responsibility
to your shareholders and yourself
to not lose track of the financials
okay
let's go to the next one
when people are
talking with organizations
they're mentioning they sometimes
mention money too soon
in the cover letter
they
they don't try to avoid answering
questions in the applicant tracking
system
and thus
the result winds up being systems or
people prematurely screen individuals
out
without having an opportunity to
evaluate and assess you
all and the people who are doing it are
not really equipped to evaluate you
they are
corporate recruiters agency recruiters
they are
screeners
and like a screener in the
wild west
imagine california during the gold rush
days i've got my pan i'm down in the
river you know i'm trying to find the
gold that's in the water right
and they're hoping that when they put
the water in and they shake it the gold
will rise to the top
the only problem with most screeners is
they don't know what they don't know
what gold looks like
as a result you have to remember the
goal is to get to the real decision
maker
and the screener is there to filter you
out
and thus when the money conversations
come up
your job is to i don't want to say be
evasive but your job is to make it as
clear to them as possible that whatever
number you quote you're not locked into
so
and i hope i pronounce your first name
correctly
uh whether it's john or jean
what to do when expected
what to do when the expected salary
field is a required field perfectly
valid question
so
number one is you can fill it with some
number and an asterisk
that reflects what you're looking for
the asterisk becomes a signal to them
that perhaps there's something more they
need to talk about
now the conversation when you talk about
it with them goes like this
you know i had to put a number in
but i really don't know a lot about the
position other than what was advertised
and
the fact of the matter is
i'm talking to you now and you can say
or as much or as little as i'm about to
tell you
job descriptions are at best 80 percent
accurate
and i say that because hr people laugh
and they say if we're lucky
and as a result you have to look at this
from the perspective of
you have to protect your interests
they're forcing you to put a number now
so i haven't met my future boss i have
no sense of what expectations are like
from them i don't really know what my
teammates would be like
so
i may come back to you and say yeah
that's the right number i need to go
higher because
what was described in the job
description is no near where near
accurate
so
you know you forced me to put something
there i put something there let's
reconvene after i've had a couple of
interviews if you want to do more
interviews
and go from there so it's always about
deflection
because when they
especially now with certain
localities specifying sam i'm going to
come to you in a second and same with
you john
with certain localities now required to
put
salary ranges
into ads
the numbers go like this
50 to 120
that's a huge range
and as such remember they're
equivocating too
and you have to say in much the same way
as you did
when you ran this ad at the broad range
you're going to evaluate and assess me
and make a decision based upon how you
perceive my value
and you may compare me with people
internally to your organization
well i haven't had a chance to meet
anyone or no fill in the blank i've met
my boss don't have a sense of the real
work i've just seen a job ad and we're
talking for five minutes so far before
you're asking me what i'm looking for
so
your job is to deflect
i hope that answers the question
john samson
do we or how do we put inflation into
the interview offer dialogue excellent
question john
there's a couple of ways to do it
you can wait until the offer phase and
use it to renegotiate
and point out to them they came in low
that right now i'm making i'm just
picking numbers at random
the math is simpler for me if i just say
a hundred thousand
and they've offered you
110.
okay inflation's at seven they're plus
three they've matched inflation
and you can politely say this is great
i've matched inflation
my current employer at the time i give
notice may do the same thing
but i want to be able to join and feel
good about it
to do a touch better to beat inflation
that's one way to approach it
you can do it proactively but i think
that complicates things because you're
going to be better informed than most
people are
so to me you always want to make them
fall in love first
before you get into the position of
negotiating
and bringing out the fallacy of their of
their proposal
anyone else have a different approach
that they would use i'm very happy to
learn from you too
i may be an expert at a lot of things
but we're all learning with one another
so if you've got an idea about how to
deal with this differently i'm very
happy to hear it as well i'm sure
everyone else would
i'll pause
and we can circle back to them
fam asks
follow up
often there's no asterisk ability in the
application you're absolutely right
uh you could try tbd
i'm sure that it forces a numeric answer
and at the first interview if there's no
ability to put something to indicate
this is not cast in stone when they get
to the
conversation like i did something
on a site recently
and i put it
you know as a coach i look for different
avenues for work one was on a website
where they priced the work i would do
for them a little too low so i put in
what rate i would accept so when they
come when they came to me with a
a confirmation so you indicated you
would accept whatever the rate was i
said
no
this is what i'm looking for
so you can put in the actual number
they can try persuading you down
there's lots of different ways to do
this but ultimately when you get to the
conversation during the screening round
you have to come back with the
equivocation statement
and you can say now again
i've met no one
i've just seen a job in
everyone tells me job ads are a good
first cut
but there's a lot more
so i want to learn about that before i
lock into a specific price
again without repeating myself from
before
you lay out what's missing that you
don't know
that you're very happy to discuss it
with them after you've had some
conversations with your future manager
the team have a clearer idea of role
responsibilities and expectations
so that in this way
you can be more accurate with
by the way the reason i don't use a
slide deck is that people wind up
reading
and they don't wind up thinking and
listening
i want it to be interactive i really do
want things in chat that i can address
and i want to get you fully present
if you're going to read
you're not fully present that's my
opinion
and again more questions i'm very happy
to address them
so the next thing that people do is over
or undervaluing themselves
now
people often get
mediocre advice from
their friends in the business
because
people tend to inflate what they're
earning no one no one wants to state a
salary i'm making uh 85 000
and
you know i've got 25 years of experience
no one wants to say stuff like that and
it's true because i used to get the
resumes
you need to go to valid sources of
information
now i don't think of glass doors being
one of those places because you tend to
get
polarizing comments from people
sometimes some of the other legitimate
salary sites
do have accurate information
but when you talk to recruiters
i think they can be
somewhat value valuable in this regard
and they can give you a sense of where
they see you in the market
and remember they're going to try and
talk you into a number because they've
got a job that fits that range
so
let's say you're interviewing at amazon
for the sake of argument
amazon pays for what you do this salary
they're going to quote that salary to
you is there any flexibility becomes
the follow-up question
let's see how they respond
and sometimes they can go a little
higher really how much just keep talking
extract information from these resources
and understand you may not be top of the
range but you want to hear what the real
top of the range is
i say you may not be top of the range
because you may not have world class
expertise
a reality to it
and you may
hear what it is
but you can always back down from a
number
if they say
they're kind of assessing you to this
level
is that okay
i'm curious what makes them come to that
conclusion
make them talk
the more they talk the more they reveal
about how they're evaluating you because
sometimes
i don't know if any of you heard my
interview presentation
the
there's the interviewers are not
particularly skillful
and they lead people down one road for
example
that suggests one thing when they wanted
something else and they leap to
conclusions like all of us do
about what someone
has real expertise or capability
so making them talk to clarify
especially agency recruiters
when you hear them starts on well they
thought you were a little light and such
and such
really
how so
just make them talk
because they don't know
and all they're trying to do is they've
gotten the signal from their client
that this is the number they're thinking
of and they're going to try and persuade
you to go to that number
so be proactive don't accept so readily
what the recruiters are telling you
or even the corporate recruiter is
telling you
really
if i was a little light and such and
such how so cuz i got one question
i got two questions how do i come to
that conclusion do you know
non-threatening
casual
remember it's not just what you say that
matters
it's how you ask the questions and how
you say things that makes you persuasive
so
if
since so much is on camera these days
you need to be a performer
really how so
really
how so
use your voice and your facial
expressions as a sales tool
it will allow them to not feel
threatened
and allow you to learn whether this
person's just a tool
of the organization
or really has knowledge that's useful to
you
you can accept or reject whatever they
say at face value doesn't just because
they think that way doesn't mean another
firm will think won't think differently
learn from them how you're being seen
and thus when you get to the negotiation
phase
and throw this back in your face
they will
it's just part of the way it works right
and it's like you know it bothered me
when you brought that to my attention
previously
because it isn't true
they thought i was deficient in this
really
eight years of experience doing that and
they asked me one question and they came
to a decision
maybe i should talk with them again
or if you get the expression from them
well we only do five percent raises
because firms are going to try that
gambit
and they are trying that gambit now we
only do five percent raises
and it's the screener who's saying that
to you
now
maybe it's time to look at things a
little bit differently
inflation's at seven
that means i need ten
just to break even
maybe it's time to revisit that practice
and not just accept it
nancy asks do you think there's
oh it kind of slid because carol put in
her pitch
do you think there's a difference in how
much salary you can negotiate
with an internal company recruiter
versus an agency recruiter
you know it's it's a
good question
and
the fact of the matter is company
recruiters sometimes use agency
recruiters to buffer for them
and as the buffer they're exploring
through that person to see if they can
persuade you to consider less
or consider a particular number
so it's always about how you respond to
the situation
so
is there a difference in how much salary
you can negotiate with the internal
person
can't tell different firms conduct
themselves differently different search
firms deal with things differently
so
i don't think there's a way i can answer
that question that's useful
so
whoever is the presenter to you
remember it's always about pushing the
envelope for your benefit because
even with the corporate recruiters
they're pushing it for their
institutions benefit it's not coming out
of their pocket
it's coming out of the institution's
pocket and they're the messenger
okay
i'm going to pause and go any other
questions while i'm here
uh
okay i'm just scrolling through what's
ah scroll up i'm just making sure that
you saw one from alex and john
i um i just got to the one from jean
i read an article yesterday from a
recruiter did you get to that one uh no
i didn't see that well
see that one thank you very much thank
you for that
and then alex follows yep okay so
thank you
i read an article yesterday from a
recruiter that posited that candidates
do not offer they do not offer a salary
in the screening process are screened
out
any thoughts on how to approach these
situations where the equivocation
statement would not work
you can always cave in
you can always back down
but the truth of the matter is what
you're saying is very reasonable
you're learning something from about
them
from their behavior
and that's always something to remember
and this isn't about the great
resignation
and the labor shortages this is about
human to human contact
if they're going to and this is the way
i view it now
bully you at this phase
imagine what you're doing what's going
to happen when you're on board
bullying is going to be part of the
repertoire because they're going to push
employees around now that doesn't mean
you don't accept it
but you've learned something you can
make choices and not go in
with
you know
blinders on oblivious to how they
conduct themselves
just like they're observing you
to figure out whether you would fit
their organization
behaviorally
well you need to learn from them
to see if
they fit your desires
and how the kind of work environment you
want to be involved with
because you're going to be the one who's
going to have to live there
let me go to alex's question
let me find it again my apologies there
we go how can one find out what his real
value is in the market
there's no simple answer
because there's lots of variations it's
why i tend to think of ranges
so for example you know when i did
search and we talked about a java
developer
there are millions of types of java
developers there's so many different
permutations of that
what are the wage scales in your firm
you know that
you know people who've worked elsewhere
whatever wage scales in those
organizations those are more realistic
you come to groups like this you ask
questions you find people with
comparable backgrounds you share
information
it's not cast in stone
there is a supply and demand component
of it and you start to notice how
anxious
the hiring manager is to hire someone
it causes you to push the number up
right
the corporate recruiter is always going
to try and talk you down they'll ask
questions like
so what would you say the rock bottom
base salaries exclusive a bonus you'd
find acceptable to join the organization
rock bottom really
at times like this
you know with
labor shortages really oh yeah we're
seeing lots of people but you haven't
hired anyone
obviously seeing lots of the wrong
people so let's go on a date first
before you start persuading me i should
accept a smaller dowry
let's figure out if this makes sense for
both of us and come back to that
question later
deflect deflect deflect
because it serves you and they may not
like the deflection
and again i come back to the premise of
you're learning something about them
everything that you do and say
communicates something to them
job applicants
are trained to be obedient girls and
boys
and that doesn't serve you
and nothing i'm suggested i'm saying so
far is the sound designed to be loud and
obnoxious
what are you kidding me
we're not going down that road
everything is very reasonable
everything is reasonable and you're
being a human being talking to another
human being
you will learn a lot from them
and as you start to get multiple offers
as will happen
you'll have choices to make and leverage
to exert
at the time you receive the offers
because many of you tend to think i need
only one
offer i don't think so many of you are
going to receive multiples
and with the multiples you can play one
off against the other
so coming down scrolling down
bear with me i have to come to jean or
gene's next question
john
john thank you very much
and you share the myth on what
recruiters say when they assert that
they are advocating for you when asking
for senate records
so
having been a recruiter for as many
years as i was
initially we communicate what you told
us
now if we know the range can be higher
i know i would go for a higher number
and say you know
maybe a little flexibility if necessary
but most of them aren't having the
conversation directly
that comes once there's an expression of
interest when they're doing a submission
of a candidate many of them are doing
electronically
by submitting a resume to their system
that's designed to screen out who's been
previously submitted who's previously in
their systems etc
so
there's
they too are buffered
just like you your buffer
sometimes i use bloomberg as an example
if a firm is asking you for the last
four digits of your social security
number
it's because they've seen so many people
in their system the names are redundant
and the last four digits of social
becomes a way that they can
differentiate between one john sampson
and another
so
they're looking for ways that they can
figure out who's
so in the presentation phase
when
that's how it's done now
i'm not sure who that's from but that
was painful
so
when they're advocating and maybe doing
the offer effects
and in the offer phase
they say they're advocating more often
than not they're listening
what are you thinking of
i'm not sure that's gonna work
could you try okay i'll try and they
come back and i know i did this for
quite a few years
i'm gonna have a conversation at four
o'clock today with them
and i'm gonna want to negotiate the
offer for you
now
i want to do a parameter test with you
to see what would be feasible for you
so
hypothetically let's say they are they
made an offer of a hundred would just
say yes
great
whatever they say let's say they'd say
yes great how about 95.
less good but i'd say yes great
92 5 and
we're listening for when you push back
the way to shortcut this is pretty
simple
we're going to parameter test really
let's cut the cut to the chase what are
they thinking of in the way of the
number
let's go right to it instead of doing
the parameter test
what have they been talking with you
about in the way of an offer
cut through the noise get to the reality
or you can also play along and know that
this is what the game is it's your
choice
depends on what your personality is like
as to what what you think you can do
but that is the game
when they're trying to see what your
rock bottom base salary is exclusive a
bonus you'd find acceptable to join
their client
you're looking for where
you start resisting
and they're working up from there
okay
let me just see if there's anything else
in chat so far
scrolling through uh yeah
alan has a question
i found it
yep
after you get an offer do you negotiate
salary and benefits together or
separately
now you have the offer
my first response is if they're both
wrong
rather than respond right then and there
i want to make sure you're composed
because they've done this a lot more
than you have
so my thinking is
you hear the offer and you go
huh
and let the silence do the work
huh
um
i'd like to think about it
can i get back to you the day after
tomorrow
or on monday
you know if it's a friday something
along those lines now this makes them
nervous
so now you've gotten their attention
because they want to close this out
remember squeezing you is only part of
the game the other part
is the person who's making the offer
is generally a screener
it's normally the corporate recruiter or
the agency recruiter
you can do that sound again with either
or anyone who's making the offer to you
can i get back to you
what do you think
you could probably tell my by my
reaction i'm not thrilled but i don't
want to respond right away
so give me a
day after tomorrow to think about it i
promise i'll circle back to you is there
a particular time on your calendar where
i could speak with you
set up something say
demonstrating sincerity
and then the day after
when you get back to them
i would start with the benefits
particularly something easy for them to
concede to
something that's an easy win for them
makes them think
this is going to go pretty well
and then you can actually circle
cycle through different things until you
get to the salary
and then when you get to the salary
you know
i've been talking with other firms
and i really do like this opportunity i
want to be clear i want to bring this to
a successful conclusion
could you do a touch better
that's the easiest thing to say
could you do a touch better
like how much better
like you made an offer of a hundred
could you do 110
push them to something
and sound sincere
remember it's not the words exclusively
that matter
it's your tone of voice that signals
things
to them that allow them to think
i want to get into trouble
she seems like she's going to say yes
if we get her the 110.
so if i got you 110 would you say yes
yeah given the other things we've
discussed yes i would
great i'll be back to you later in the
day
you get the 110.
but start with the benefits first
with something that it's going to be
easy for them to concede to
and thus work from there eventually
cycling back to salary
and know that certain things are not
negotiable
someone in another group asked me about
negotiating profit sharing
it's not negotiable
restrictive stock units can be
negotiable with certain organizations
so you can try and negotiate the rsu's
a sign-on of course especially if they
don't accede to your financial request
to increase the offer
that comes from a different budget item
never hesitate
to get some accommodation that allows
you to get the money
now remember
i'm just saying this to you folks now
when they're giving it to you as a sign
on your next raise is coming on the
basis of base salary
not the base salary and bonus
or base salary and sign-on
so remember that in your decision making
but it's a fallback that lets you get
the money now because you can always
change jobs again
don't worry about it i'm seeing alex
with another question alex i'm counting
on you
pre-covered salaries were adjusted
geographically california paid higher
because of the cost of living
however now with work from home
geographical location is no longer
important what can i share about that
so i'll use the example of google
because i have uh one of my wife's
nephews works for google he's in dc they
hired him pandemic occurs stay home
stay at home
so now there's talking with him about
coming to california he's gotten engaged
so
different organizations are dealing with
pandemic issues differently
so
in the course of your interview and
you're going to learn a lot about what
their expectations are right
and one of the things that's going to
surface is is this a work from home role
is this a permanent work from home rule
do you have an expectation of returning
to the office what's been the discussion
about that
this should shape your thinking
if it's a permanent work from home rule
and
you're in new york and they're in
california
what's the difference in your cost of
living it's not radically different
same thing with seattle
and for me who's in asheville north
carolina if they were trying to persuade
me to come up to new jersey or new york
is a cost of living a difference that
exists for me
clearly housing costs are different i
have to get a place up there
sell my place here buy it up there
it's going to cost me you have to work
that into the equation and communicate
that along the way
gee and remember this may cost you the
offer
and that's okay
because someone else will hire you
that's the thing many of you don't
remember
someone else will hire you it may not be
this firm your search may go on a little
bit longer than you would prefer
but someone else will bring you on board
and
remember don't allow yourself to be
bullied at any point
if it's not good for you
you're better off simply saying
you know
what i'm hearing you say is you have an
expectation that a month from now i'm
going to have to move to fill in the
blank
and work from home is going down
so let's look at what cost of living
differences are between the area and
who's going to pay for that
oh we're not paying anything thank you
that makes my choice easier i wish you
well
and walk away
if you're not prepared to walk away
what can you do to ameliorate
the financial hardship that the move is
going to cost
because there is a difference in cost of
living between where i am in asheville
north carolina
and where you are in parsippany new
jersey
or princeton new jersey
and listen
they get back to you i really appreciate
that
notice the sincerity in my tone of voice
remember there's a theater to all of
this
in the interviewing i talk about the
theater of interviewing
where you want to convey certain things
not just
the data
but use your voice as a tool to express
how you feel
i hope you can sense in my voice that
i'm communicating sincerity because that
is that is what i'm trying to do now
i use a softer tone of voice
slightly longer pauses
to do that
you can practice that ahead of any
conversation about compensation
and just like i talk about with
interviewing
you need to rehearse how you're going to
respond to things and not just walk in
cold
for these conversations that's another
one of the mistakes by the way
you don't practice saying the things
when you're getting to negotiation phase
you think them in your head and you
think that's enough but the words need
to come out of your mouth
and you can work with someone
from the group perhaps
to play the obnoxious hr person the
obnoxious agency person the obnoxious
hiring manager
with that tone of voice that basically
is giving you the scowl
and in responding to the scale you don't
buy in
remember that earlier example i get well
maybe this should be the first time you
go about five percent
i know you haven't really evaluated me
yet maybe it should be the first time
you exceed five percent
it's all casual
no anxiety
it goes to another mistake people make
their anxiety comes through in their
voice
the anxiousness communicates something
to people
john i'm going to come to you in a
second
the anxiety communicates
and you don't want them to get it
because once they have you they're going
to become more inflexible
let me come back to questions here it
looks like john is the next one
um
i recently had a situation where the
application process required disclosing
how much i wanted to earn however the
hiring manager started the interview
with i don't think we can pay the salary
or request them we can pay x with a
bonus component is this some is this
negotiation tactics sometimes most of
the time but they haven't had a chance
to evaluate and assess you
how do they know
that you're not worth the real number
now
why
why ask for the salary up front then
they saw something in your background
they were willing to take a shot
now hopefully you didn't travel to their
offices
to have this conversation
that's one of the good things about
what's going on now did you at least do
this when you don't have to drive
somewhere most of the time if you're
driving somewhere to have your time
wasted
you know it's just such an insulting
behavior on their part
and again that's a message david put my
my mobile number in
for text and my email address
don't call me because often i'm coaching
other people or i'm recording content
text me in advance we'll set up a time
to speak okay i've got a scheduling link
through my website the big game hundred
dot us you can always get on my calendar
for a free discovery call for 30 minutes
and you know i'll answer questions there
hopefully this isn't just an opportunity
to milk me for everything i know and
you're sincerely interested in my
coaching you
and i'll answer some questions
give me the courtesy of letting me know
that that's what it's about
um
bang has a question
i was just scrolling up because i've
seen that yep okay
interviewing for a position that
requires physical presence on site in
the office can you suggest an argument
for higher pay for the cover risk any
data is to substantiate the risk i
haven't looked for data that's the fact
of it
i haven't looked for it nor would i look
for it
you guys need to look out for yourself
in this regard
so it begs the question of
why would you apply for something that's
going to require
regular in-office appearances if you're
not interested
i did a video recently
for
about remote work
i don't recall the title but if you go
to jobsearchtv.com
i know it's one of the recent videos i
released like in the last three days
david you have that look like you're
going to go look for it
and if if you don't find it easily at my
website there's a search option in the
blog
i think it involves
that the word would be remote or remote
work that you could do to search by
but
you know you can always and remember
they don't have to agree to anything
just like you don't have to agree to
anything
but the idea is to say
you know
they're asking me to come into the
office like
okay i'm gonna i'm gonna help myself i'm
in my 70s at this point if someone
wanted me to come into the office to do
work
you know on a regular basis i've got a
problem with that because lord knows i
fit a demographic
i'm a more at-risk person
on your side if you're a more at-risk
person you bring that into the equation
and thus what you're able to do
is
you know speak with them with sincerity
knowing full well they may not agree
is there a particular reason you want
people in the office so they'll give you
the usual bs line about oh
the teamwork the interplay
it's control
we know that they think they have more
control if you're in the office
i've been working from home now for two
years
i've been working for my current firm
for two years remotely
that has saved a lot of money
i have to bring that into the equation
if you're going to have me in the office
five days a week
you covered risk the commutation the
time
you get more out of me from home to be
honest with you because i don't work
nine to five from home attend the work
uh until 5 30 or whatever it is but it's
your choice you want me in the office
it's a premium offer
to deal with that and then they say no
and that's okay
you always have to be prepared to walk
away
so that you're not bullied into
something you really don't want to do
bang ass clarification on work in office
some of us working in construction
cannot work from home you're absolutely
right
so
i'm not sure the nature of the work that
you're doing
that would allow you to work from home
clarification might help me if it's an
office job
uh working from home
i get that
and you can say
i'm curious
what do you think
makes it better for me to be in the
office doing the same thing i could log
in remotely to do that you've had
someone else do for the last two years
remotely i'm just curious
and listen to what they say and make a
decision
someone wrote to me privately i don't
know if they want to be identified
how not to feel at a disadvantage and
returning to the workforce after years
of
inactivity
and i don't want to say anything that
might be
confidential here
so
so
the network is important
when you've been out of the workforce
for a while
so start off with the premise of
reconnecting with people that you've
worked with previously
hi how are you it's been a couple years
now
yeah the kids are now grown
it's time
i'm thinking about getting back to work
this is
female and male you know
there's been a lot of guys who've been
taking care of kids at home while their
wives have been writers authors and a
variety of other professions where
they've been on point for the family
so you know time for me to get back
what's been going on could you bring me
up to date on things that have changed
since the last three years four years
five years
have a social conversation first
start off learning what you don't know
rather than discovering it on an
interview
sometimes you will find that that person
you used to work with
says to you you know there's something
here that might work for you
or my wife husband partner
just mentioned something to me a week
ago let me check with them and circle
back
talk to people from your past as your
launch point
that's always the best way you may need
to get remedial education
to deal with how things have changed
over the last five years you want to be
able to prove it's not such a big leap
for you
getting back into the workforce after a
couple years away
remember from their standpoint you're
not a safe hire
because you don't follow the typical
pattern
and thus they worry about how deficient
is this person
where are the skills gaps
just so they know
so that becomes your launch point and
that kind of signals other things about
what next steps to be
i think over this past tense a lot of
companies are planning to come back on
site as soon as march and as late as may
i think it'll be as late as i think
it'll be may april
only because
there's another one that's coming that's
another homocron variant
so they may play it safe but they're
going to work on getting people back
into the office
just the way it is and they may revert
come the fall because
the way this thing seems to be working
is when we're indoors more
it's more active
that's why florida during the summer
it's too hot for people to be outside
why in the northeast and other cold
weather places it tends to surge during
the winter months so
we will see what we will see they're
going to broach all sorts of things with
you
and thus
you have to do what's right for you
and bring up sensitive conversations or
address
difficult conversations with them in
ways that serve you
because they may cave if they identify
you as the best person
david says
um
david montfort says conventional advice
is to avoid or delay the salary
conversation until later in the process
if one doesn't want to waste time
pursuing a position that's below the
range what would you advise i find that
most salary conversations come up with
the screener
and you may not have been around at the
beginning when i addressed this the
screener is going to want to tie you
into a number early
well you want to only commit to a number
late
so
uh if you're being pushed into a number
by the screener
a big smile comes on to your face
and you go you know i understand
that that you want to lock me into a
number but you know the fact on the
matter is i know nothing more than
what's been in this job my job is i
haven't met my future boss don't know
the team don't have a sense of the
expectations what i'm going to be asked
to step into other than what i'm reading
which most of the time is incompletely
active
so could we circle back to this later on
and that becomes the way you deflect it
remember they want to tie you in early
you want to be to make a commitment late
um david how much more do you want me to
cover how much more time well we we
certainly are not time bound but maybe
another 10 or 15 minutes if you can
i could do 10 okay okay that's fine
thank you
terrific so in approximately a quarter
after yeah and then folks you know keep
that in mind as well if you've got a
question or two uh you'll want to ask it
sooner before later and of course when
we wrap up we're going to be hanging
around the meeting room with the
recording off a little later thank you
and you have ways of getting in touch
with me so don't hesitate okay
hey this so far i've covered about seven
percent of my presentation this is
fabulous
yeah there's a lot of curiosity a lot of
activity from us and so i'm glad you're
able to uh customize then the program
just for our needs thank you
you're welcome one of the things i
realized when i came up with this idea
is how few presentations there are about
salary and salary negotiation
and
the first two times i've done this
i got to maybe 10 15
of what i have prepared i have a video
course about this
that you can find out about through my
website
it's inexpensive because that's the way
i price everything is inexpensively
so i think it's listed as 25 but udemy
often offers discounts
for it so
it's usually under 20 on their website
you can go there directly
the big game hunter dot eus i think
they'll be on the final slide that will
get thrown up
the big game hunter dot u s forward
slash
catch this one folks
salary oops oops
and that's where the full presentation
is
desperate
kind of like in dating
if someone acts desperate
suddenly you want to slow them down
right
oh slow down please
yeah
much too aggressive here let's get to
know one another first
well
if you're the anxious one
it's a turn off to them as employers
their thinking is
and i don't agree with it because i
helped to create this myth in the market
they have a myth that passive job
applicants are superior to actives
i'd help to create this myth because i
couldn't afford to give you an idea how
long ago this was i couldn't afford
big new york times ads in the financial
section
so i came up with this idea that said
you know i find the best person
available not the best one who sees your
head on sunday in the financial section
on the classifieds of the new york
things
my goal is to find the best one
and frankly
that person isn't reading the times on
something
they're not looking at for a job
and this is what you're up against
so from the standpoint of
how you present yourself as anxious
no one likes desperate people during
dating
a long time for me
no one likes desperate people when
you're dating no one likes desperate
people when your job
you may feel desperate
but you need to contain that
and not show it
you have to kind of look
cool you know relaxed
i don't say completely hard to get you
want to appear interested
but you know
you don't want to seem so desperate
and you just
really need this job i want this job
can you make an offer like now i've been
here for five minutes i want the job
no
you understand how the game is played
and job hunting and
interviewing and dating are very similar
the desperate person goes home by
themselves
the anxious person in a job interview
most of the time is
so rejected
you get into salary negotiations
they become less
flexible
the easier you make it seem that you're
going to be to join the more desperate
you are the less flexible
they're going to need to be because they
believe they got you
conversely
if you treat negotiations like it's a
cage match
and you know it's like an mma battle
and it's
you know
it's a war i got to win the war and you
got nothing to give up to them
then you're going to lose because even
if you get the money they're going to
hate you once you're on board
i remember
this is going back a lot of years
i had a total compliance irs the first
year i started my first business
i had a home office in the west village
and there was an irs agent there every
friday
for six months
catch that one he's going through every
detail
my accountant
comes to me toward the end of this and
goes he's being transferred and wants to
close out the case
you got anything you can give him
so he feels like he got something from
you for all this time he spent on friday
afternoons so we could go home
i said my cable tv bill
now i used it legitimately for
certain purposes but i said how about my
cable bill
great at that time it was 50 a month so
it's no big deal
remember it was the old days it's the
80s
so i gave him the cable bill he goes
cable bill
reject
it cost me 150
i was okay with that
versus everything else he was looking
for
so
if you've got something that you can
concede at this particular point in the
negotiation
give them something so they feel like
they won
but you're gonna win bigger
i have one or two more points unless
there are questions
and then i'll wrap it up
um
listening to your aunt or uncle for
advice who
they think they're the expert on
everything but they
they're telling you what to do but the
last time they looked for a job ronald
reagan was president
and there are those situations where you
have family members who know nothing
who are telling you what you should do
and who you should job you should go to
their offices and try and meet with them
without an appointment that will show
them
you really care and you want to work
there
like
people are going to let you into their
offices right
how does that work
if you notice that there's security in
all these buildings
and when it comes time to negotiation
they've got opinions too
and they're so 1970s maybe
maybe their 70s if you're lucky
some of them were even older than that
so
when all is said and done
listen to people who have some real
knowledge and you got people like that
in this group
and there are other people who you know
who are actually knowledgeable
they just rap by saying
oh i'm sorry let me let me come to
alex's question
because work location is no longer
relevant
american jobs in danger
companies can hire from india for
that's a 30 year old question
actually jobs are coming back the
question is labor is there adequate
labor
i've tended to think that
um
i'm not being political here i just want
to be clear the thing about the southern
border
is about getting low-cost labor to do
those kind of jobs
that
you know
we've all seen people work in stores
the boomer generation is starting to
retire
they don't want to stand in walmart as
creators
they're being forced to do that if they
need a few dollars
but there are people coming across the
southern border who can do certain jobs
that the boomers
are disappearing from
i speak as one myself
so
recognize that
following the baby boom
is the baby bust
gen x
a very small population
so there are jobs that will need to be
done
by that
by
people who are in this country who may
have crossed the southern border or
immigrated
this has been my premise for why this is
all going on beyond simply who they're
going to vote for
i think there's an economic reason
going past that
companies can hire from india for a
fraction of the u.s salary yes but they
got to deal with time zones they don't
like that
and there are people
the millennial generation is more
complicated than the boomers
gen z and the boomers are kind of alike
in their work attitude
but the millennials and gen x don't want
to put up with that correct
so for the foreseeable future we have
labor shortages
and it may take a few years before we
start to get into balance as gen x
starts to move in
into their 60s
and start aging out of the workforce
as the boomers are starting to do
by the way when they talk about the
labor shortages they talk about three
million three and a half million
deficient people in the market or people
who've disappeared two and a half
million retired
it's one million that have not returned
yet
so we have a complicated economic
climate
and long and short of it is
we don't know with certainty
how things are going to shake
and for those of you who are in
white-collar professions
your skills are going to be important
your flexibility and your adaptability
to change is going to be important
ability
to anticipate trends is going to be
important
whoever our next president will be i
suspect there's going to be a push
toward
bringing jobs back stateside
and i don't think we'll come
in with this presidency for reasons i
don't want to go into
but it's not about you your job is to
get a job that you want to be in and
earn the kind of money and do the kind
of work that you want to it lays a
foundation for yourself and your future
if you have more for me
again you can contact me my email
address is in chat
we can set up a time to speak i'll
forward a scheduling link to you
there's a ton in my blog at
dot u thebiggame100.us there are more
than twelve thousand posts there that
you can watch listen to a read that i've
created over the years that will help
you with job search hiring
management leadership thank you for
putting that in david it's there
text me rather than call
because if i'm coaching i'm not taking a
phone call and unless you're on my phone
i don't take phone calls i return calls
i think all of us do that these days
unless you still have a landline
you're dealing with all the robocalls
but no matter
i'd love to help you further is the
slide available like kathy that i sent
to you that you're able to put up on the
screen
um i didn't see that just yet so i can
pull that up jeff just give me a minute
uh or i'll send it to you david because
if you're in more better position to do
that
what is it a contact info slide yeah
with a couple of courses i have
available my website and all the other
stuff
so
i'll just simply say the skills needed
to find a job yeah and i'll also post
that slide with the link to the video so
it'll be on our website if people want
to download it later
great
the skills needed to find a job
are different than those needed to do a
job
salary negotiation and again got to very
little of my presentation i wanted to
make sure that i covered your questions
salary negotiation
they have an advantage because they do
it much more frequently than you guys do
thus learning the pitfalls of the
negotiation
are important for you so you don't hurt
yourself and your candidacy
and remember
right now you're in a market where you
are advantaged they're not going to let
you in on that secret but you read
enough
and there's a disconnect
i mentioned the 450 000 jobs created i
interviewed someone
recently from my youtube channel and
podcast
and we described it as being like an
eighth grade dance
there's a disconnect between what each
side is looking for and no one crosses
over the other side so when
you wanna
they want you they want you
they don't want to keep dating
they want you
you were you checked out is the best
that they've seen
they want you they don't want number two
so remember that in these conversations
don't be arrogant but just don't give
away your power print in charlotte
i'm complete thank you so much
for the opportunity to serve
[Music]
you

ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER

Jeff Altman, The Big Game HunterJeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with over 2200 episodes.

Are you interested in 1:1 coaching, interview coaching, advice about networking more effectively, how to negotiate your offer or leadership coaching? Schedule a discovery call at my website, www.TheBigGameHunter.us

Learn to interview like a pro. “The Ultimate Job Interview Framework” www.TheBigGameHunter.us/interviews Kindle and print versions are available on Amazon.

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