Job Search During a Crisis | JobSearchTV.com
By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
]ob hunting during the crisis has its own dynamics to it.
A Painful Career Mistake I Made and You May Have, Too
Hi! I’m Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter and you’re either watching Job Search TV or
listening to No BS Job Search Advice Radio. As many of you know, from time to
time I bring on an expert to talk about some aspect related the job search
hiring more effectively, managing and leading, workplace related stuff –you know!
and I’ve got one today you know I’ve been having a great time in our
conversations before recording this which is recording now so Anthony why
don’t you introduce yourself and let people know who you are okay awesome
thank you thank you Jeff so my name is. Anthony Johnson I’m a managing partner
with Dell risk I’ve certainly been in cybersecurity now I’ve been the
executive that organizations like JP. Morgan Fannie Mae where I ran all of
cybersecurity so spent a lot of time with hiring building teams and helping
people to grow in their careers so thank you having me and what did you want to
be when you grew up I don’t know what I would necessarily wanted to be I think I
just wanted to do something that I loved and so something I could get passionate
about so I’m glad you found it so folks isn’t I’m recording this I was recording
this it’s in the middle of the Cova crisis and that’s really what we’re
going to talk about not covert of course but John nothing in the midst of a
crisis because it’s not the same as a traditional job search or even in the
midst of an economic recovery or I’m someone who’s worked in social more than
40 years and filled lots of positions. I’ve seen a lot and it seems to be
getting more intense as one crisis follows another so we’re going to talk
about how to job search in the middle of a crisis of some sort that’s really
affecting the economy so Anthony there’s so much we can talk about here where do
you think we ought to start what’s your background of either finding consulting
work or job search during a crisis and how did you go about doing it yeah so so
I think that something is really really important to consider is that as people
as individuals we don’t actually spike up on like hey we’re super
productive one day and like when as we build skills and build build our
networks and relationships those are things that that maintain as long as
we’re maintaining them they maintain value and so part of it part of the
reason why you know the company has continued to be successful why we’re
actually still hiring now is because we are actively engaged in ecosystems
actively continuing to learn in the overall market right now you’re seeing a
lot of companies pausing firing hiring they’re they’re trying to get a sense of
the world which is very indicative of that first first pause of how organs
they just think about a crisis right like they got assessments kind of going
on right now it’s kind of like in the kids game where they suddenly go freeze
yes they stop exactly where they are they look around everyone’s horrified
and they don’t know what to do first so they just stick exactly where they are
with their hands up in different directions their mouths open or shut as
it might be it’s really under I’m explaining it in a way that’s designed
to be a visual for those of you don’t want the publicity but it’s true
absolutely and that’s where organizations are there they they
they’re frozen you know they don’t want to make any dramatic changes until they
figure out what’s on the other side of the crisis because there’s life before
the crisis there’s like in the crisis and then there’s life afterwards and so
everyone’s trying to figure this out and that’s really really important for job
seekers to understand where they’re at in the arc and it’s not that their
skills are suddenly not not in demand it’s it’s a pause and so so you know how
do you relate to that pause and it’s funny I had done something talking about
a pause and that’s the initial phase in what happens in the crisis everyone
stops where they are and freezes and the idea is you want to be the person who
causes and and has their senses and awareness about them to look around and
notice what’s going on and what’s not going on going on so that you’re the one
who’s out there making connection that’s exactly and I think something that a lot
of people often miss in the in the pause if you will right whether it’s a crisis
or an event that’s happening more at a micro at an organization that there’s
one of two things can happen you can either learn a lot and grow in that
pause or you’re literally gonna freeze with everyone else and not not bro but
what that means is you have other people who are progressing they are they’re
gonna make a lot of other different types of decisions it could be a skill
set that they’re suddenly you know doubling down on or expanding their
network or reaching back out to people right one of the things that’s been
going on right now I’ve been talking and connecting with people that I haven’t
spoken to in a number of years and it’s just deliberately reaching out
deliberately saying hey how are you doing it’s been a while I have no ask I
just want to check in and see how you’re doing and why does that work why is it
that just making the call or doing that email or text why does that work in
opening the conversation again yeah so I think that it works and I think that
it’s impactful because as long as it’s authentic right authenticity people
being real you know connecting out with somebody and say hey I don’t know I’m
not asking you crazy I’m just taking it are you doing well because when we
received that it feels kind of good of like I remember that’s really nice you
didn’t even ask me no I you know it’s just that it creates that that social
loop a little bit I mean and that carries through in so many different
ways not just on the immediacy but long term I think define who you are a bit
you know one of the things I’ve said to people like coach now is there’s a the
best time of the year for networking is the Christmas run between Thanksgiving
and Christmas it is so easy to reconnect because everyone’s the holiday spirit
know you say hey it feels like it’s been a hundred years since we last spoke
how’s it going yeah unfortunately when we have a time like this it’s the same
thing in that people appreciate being contacted especially when there’s no
asking boss not like saying hey you hear about any job exactly right but what it
does is it also puts you in the mind space you know you get a little bit of
that mind space with people as well where it’s you know as you’re kind of
thinking as as as the world moves along if something pops up they’re like oh wow
actually I think I might know somebody I actually haven’t talked to in a while I
talked about two days ago oddly enough I should connect you guys
it’s it’s amazing how I want to say coincidental life is but it really is
you know this string of events and so maintaining the power of network
maintaining those relationships checking on people being authentic those really
really matter and then being methodical and skill sets like how do I grow what
are the new things I’m gonna do or book. I’m gonna read or whatever that is I’m
gonna pulls on network because I know people don’t network and treat it like
it’s a career move so you want them to really Network it’s so it’s so Wow – one
of the things I’ve always done this mentorship thing inside my organizations
and one of the skills that we specifically taught was networking how
do you network with purpose right and it’s not just going up and finding you
know meeting random people it’s adding value it’s it’s being somebody they’re
like man we want them at the table we want we need you here to be part of the
conversation and that’s what kind of value can someone had in networking yeah
so it’s a great question and there’s a lot of different kinds right sometimes
it’s gonna be a specific expertise it might be you know I’ll make it up like
in the IT world do you have a specific skill set of a software like great it
could be a diverse opinion it could be hey you know what I’ve seen that or
experienced that or I’ve you know I have a different thought the reality is is
nobody ever has the perfect answer there’s never a perfect answer there’s
an answer that we think is good today and it might totally blow up and so by
getting a bunch of people having a diverse conversations having a bunch of
people at the table in their network group
you get you you generally can make more informed decisions for different
perspectives it’s funny when I got married in the past I’m not on my first
life I just want to be clear about that there was a service that was done where
the rabbi who performed the service took two candles out and he talked about how
individually you know very bright but we put them together they burn much much
brighter together unless the power of the network is really that information
relationships and you know statistics were always very clear 70 percent of
positions are filled as a result of networking 70 percent of the 70 percent
49 percent come as a result of introductions to people that your
network knows who you don’t have a clue about absolutely and I think it’s also
the same on promotions internally right a lot of times companies think or they
say well you know we got this really great elaborate promotion process and
those are all true but what really happens and in often times is there’s a
small group of people they’re having a conversation and they’re like you know
what I think Sara would be amazing yeah. I actually should be cheap it’s a great
work it’s just part of this ecosystem and then the next thing you know Sara’s
on the promotion panel and it’s really interesting how that works out yeah its
sponsorship and champions not just simply a mentor mentors is one level
they give you advice it’s free it tends to have the advantage of supporting the
organization that you’re associated with there are exceptions to that but most of
the time you’re picked as a mentor because we’re going to tell the company
line and keep people in line but fundamentally it’s great to be in
situations where you’re champions within
yeah exactly that’s where I think that sponsorship coaching those are really
really really powerful and meaningful because what you have reason why you
know you have the Hat on coach I love I love the aspect of it right because a
coach is gonna tell you things that you might not want to hear right and
it’s really just a matter of are you gonna be able to process that and
actually grow from it’s the same exact thing in looking at looking at getting a
new role or interviewing in a time of a crisis right having somebody who can say
listen why don’t you go ahead and also a mock interview and then having someone
tell you Wow okay that’s not gonna show so well we talked a little bit about
backgrounds and like presentation like a lot of different things come in come
into play so getting someone who’s gonna give you meaningful feedback I’m really
important so we’re talking about how to initially operate in the crisis but
there’s bigger opportunities out there like brand build your brand so that
people find out about you and how people do the brand the building how should you
know about it during a crisis to allow people to discover you yeah I think
there’s always I want people cutting the line rather than you know diving into
the pond with all the other fish yeah that’s a really really great point right
brand is so important because you know when you enter a crisis where there’s an
event if you have a strong brand that’s gonna help carry you through right and
it’s it’s this distinction of if somebody doesn’t have or has it
maintained a strong brand or hasn’t started build their personal brand and
they’re answering they just got a lot of more work to do
and so how are they whether it’s on the social media sites
platforms blogs things like LinkedIn articles medium pushing content pushing
thought leadership taking your experiences which a lot of times people
will say you know what nobody wants to hear from me so long you tell yourself
it is it and you know we we one of the. I’ve been posting a lot on on LinkedIn
and you know that’s been part of our overall just brand building for the
company and for myself and I would say that most of the content most of the
feedback that I get is not actually on anything cybersecurity specific or
related it really is about wow you really should a human side that was
awesome that resonated with me and you’re like oh okay that’s
I want to do more of that right I want to build more authentic relationships
and that helps as you build your brand which also helps getting jobs and
there’s an interesting phenomena with authenticity you can’t vomit down off
anticipation because people will will push your way but once you have the
relationship it seems to be much different that’s true and what you’re
gonna find and it’s it feels uncomfortable at first right you know
I’ve had a lot of other senior execs play are you sure or do I read your post
kind of interesting a little little personal but then I look at no joke I
remember this one where I simply spoke about some of the challenges of in a
crisis actually very specific of how everyone is pretending that we’re all
super happy and everything’s perfect right and like hey I had a really rough
day and it’s okay to sure that people you had a rough day be like listen I’m
struggling today and just being authentic and I got a lot of feedback
from people who were like I feel the exact same way thanks for saying that
because I’ve never had somebody really senior exposed themselves and now in you
know that level of vulnerability and man it just felt great just be kind be part
of it and you don’t have to be senior you know at any level and add value on
by being authentic and I think back to all those internet marketers who have
their hands of them standing there with the women around them and the
rolls-royce next to them that they rented for the air or the crying convey
that they had the great life that unita don’t have exactly right and it’s it’s
really interesting when you look at like the uber successful people like like
Warren Buffett is fascinating to me right he still buys his breakfast at
McDonald’s and change like it’s amazing to me right he still has the same house
from you know when he originally bought it and he just does his thing and you
know he doesn’t live that flash life but his brand is one of adding value where
he’s constantly reading constantly learning right I think he spends I
forget how many hours a day reading reports and so it’s really really
fascinating where his brand is add value to people provide those
interesting insights and people want to listen to him and I think that as as we
do that more and more it makes us more palatable as we go and you look for the
next job or look for the next opportunity or the career that you love
because I’m gonna think bigger than job on this one yeah because your brand is
really who you are in your life yeah and in this you know I talk in terms of
being the big-game hunter my trademark that term years ago I’m still doing head
hunting and it works very well now as a coach I want to help people play big and
so often people they keep themselves down they buy the lion from their
employers they believe they’re unimportant unimportant they’re put in
the box nice box stay in the box don’t ask for anything
stay in the box and it’s a job hunter especially now you want to be in a
situation where people are looking for you the philosophy and I want to claim
credit that I was one of many people who contributed to this the attitude that
organizations have is that the active job out there was inferior to the one
that they find that if they recruit this person it’s a superior candidate than
the one who’s active which is it a crisis is terrible
because you may be our work is so many millions are right now but when you’re
in the position of being pursued when you’re being hunted and it’s just
because of what your brand says that they’re finding one LinkedIn because the
profile is keyword-optimized hang up by the way you haven’t made it seem like
you’re out of work now don’t you put a completion date there because they hung
over their disadvantages you if you have a completion date if your employer if
you are the person that they hunt out they think you’re better even though
they can essential resume a job work it’s passing and there’s and it’s it’s
almost like you know I’m like a craps table although I’ll say like gamblers
are very superstitious like there’s a lot of recruiters who are very
superstitious as well well you knowing they got that so you
can’t do this and then you’re like I don’t I don’t think those two things add
up like two plus three does not equal four right I guess that’s different here
and so as but-but-but being somebody who’s either being recruited or even
good like he’s like you mentioned not just a job but your overall career and
how you kind of think about it think about that the more you spend on more
time you spend on building your brand that gives you opportunities not just
for the interview process of Ajo B but also for the process of building your
own company building your own thing that you want to do right and so I look at my
career a little bit I spent a lot of time my entire careers been in
cybersecurity but I spent a lot of time talking with founders talking with the
software service companies and just building on network and that not my deep
expertise in cyber the networking and the relationship building and the
authenticity is what enabled us to get our first set of clients and it’s what
it’s enabled us to have fully inbound demand on the services that we provide
right nobody’s ever said hey Evan you’re super smart can you guys come do this
it’s wow we heard that you really care when you engage and I trust Joe just
working with you like we need to work and it matters a lot
there’s a great story I read tonight about the Yankee baseball player here in
judge anything is referred to as the new. Derek Jeter in an interview done with
Damian Lillard from the Portland. Trailblazers and judge laughed about it
but then he continued on by saying complimentary things about him and of
course said you know one of the advantages of being a Yankee ball player
is you get to be around the legends of the game you get the Jeter’s the
pennants the Reggie Jackson’s all these great ballplayers they bring in from
time to time so you have a chance to hang out with him and learn at a
different level and players on other teams law these are the Great’s of the
game and it has to hang out with the legends and folks if you have a chat and
by the way he goes on to talk about for the young ballplayers coming up
behind me I know I’m that for them yeah so I make time for them so it’s a
two-way street folks you want to be in contact with people who are ahead of you
on the curve and you want to be in contact with the people behind you on
the cover absolutely and what’s really funny though is when
we realize that the people that are behind us on the curve someday they’re
gonna be the decision-makers they’re gonna be the ones might and what’s
important is how did you help them as well how did you grow their ecosystem
how are you adding again adding value in just different different meaningful ways
and when you when you get out of the the get away from the headspace or like a
its transactional and you’re just giving and sharing you get a lot of joy out of
it but it really converts right it really does make a big difference in
your overall career mobility up and so I think those are all important things and
it’s kind of a foundation of this topic right of you know in order to be
successful in a crisis in taking on any role or starting companies or whatever
that is you have to you have to be thinking about that long term longevity
that long term value add and that matters in a big way
I know everyone’s habit because they’re frightened yeah they need that job is to
go transaction what do I do today how can I do this today how can I get an
interview and I understand and it’s important and you have to put seeds in
the ground that you haven’t put in before yeah absolutely right and I think
the thing is is that it’s not it’s not just an or right I think that you know
job hunters people who are looking for a role in a crisis there’s definitely
going out talking to people just making sure people know what you do applying
doing all of those types of things but then spending another eight hours and
adding consonant spending and you know adding a voice you know for pushing some
sort of a thought he’s out there or learning learning you
know building up a skill set now it is really really important to almost say
that especially in a crisis we’re dealing with these these things but
you’ve got to be able to just double down and and really win so you you
instead of being frozen right you move fast and you just need to grow so the
one that the one place I’ll disagree with you about is and learn something
not just simply or virtually pose that is or learn yeah yeah so I want you to
both folks yes I know and that’s what I mean oh sorry I shouldn’t sit and learn
something I think you have to be doing doing both although I would submit that
you probably have a good you know 16 hours I love Arnold Schwarzenegger say
you know quote where people he’s like you know you can get six hours of sleep
and he’s like well you know sometimes people say they need eight he’s like my
advice is sleep faster right maximize the time and really say you know how do
I grow how do I do these things and just an push on it so absolutely hey I got to
ask you what happened I asked you about yet that we really should share with the
folks sure if you think would make a difference yeah so um we spend a lot of
time talking about brand around presents and the one thing we talk about before
we actually just kind of kicked off kicked us off was the notion of also
just kind of you know showing up and how you show up you know being able to
convey your presence over a video conference
perhaps in in a crisis mode and one of the things that you mentioned which is
something I think it’s just really really imperative is to make sure that
you are being authentic right when you’re being interviewed when it’s when
you have in a conversation of somebody it’s not just about being this perfect
robot that knows all the answers right we’re human
ask them a human question like check in with them if it’s the middle of a crisis
how are you doing like in a meaningful way right making sure that you are able
to convey that level of realness companies don’t want to hire robots they
want to hire people because people care people care about the product they care
about the customers they care about how everything shows up at the end right
robots don’t care and so I think more and more no crisis
you’re gonna see people looking to hire people there was a story I told Anthony
earlier about someone I coached who’s on a final interview and when they say save
any questions for us the first question was how are you doing with all of this
but more importantly how are you doing family okay and it made such a huge
difference in the connection between the people between the two of them because
fundamentally when firms hire competence is only one variable the other variables
all add up to trust that’s exactly they want to trust someone and when you don’t
care it’s hard to make the connection thank you for bringing that back
anything no sweetness today no I think that was it though this has been
absolutely great it’s fun you know I think that you know as people are
looking for new opportunities in a crisis just kind of doubling down
recognize that you know the frustration concern like you’re not alone those are
all normal things and then how do you just kind of work through that so I
think that was really important if folks before I bring anything back on for a
final thing I just want to say a lot of what we talked about are things you
should be doing in a search any time because the reality is it’s just cubed
during a crisis where the job ads have disappeared and
now it’s a question of planting seeds in the ground so that when things start to
the lift your top of mind great interview
I’m glad we made an adjustment today. Anthony how can people find that babble
more about you and delve risk to ego V E on yep so let’s say you know shoot us
the note on LinkedIn mention that you saw saw the interview on your on the on
YouTube or listed on the podcast but happy to connect and thanks for having
having me on it’s been great glad you enjoyed it and folks all be back soon
with more. I’m Jeff up in the big game hunter if
you’re interested in one-on-one coaching visit my website which is luggage a
hunter Don us there’s a button that says schedule the schedule time for free
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Recession-Proofing Your Career: Weak Ties
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. He is hired to provide No BS Career Advice globally. That can involve job search, hiring staff, management, leadership, career transition and advice about resolving workplace issues. Schedule a discovery call at my website, www.TheBigGameHunter.us
He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with over 2500 episodes.
I do a livestream on LinkedIn, and YouTube (on the JobSearchTV.com account) Tuesdays and Fridays at 1 PM Eastern. You can send your questions about job search, hiring better, management, leadership or to get advice about a workplace issue to me via messaging on LinkedIn or in chat during the approximately 30-minute show.
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