Finding A Job in Digital Marketing, SEO, etc |

If you are someone interested in a digital marketing career, SEO and related fields, my guest, Brandon Leibowitz has advice for you to break in as well as succeed in the field.

The Changing Power Dynamics in the Labor Market

Jeff Altman  [00:04]

So my guest today is Brandon Leibowitz. Brandon runs and operates SEO Optimizers. And he’s done that since 2007– Woohoo. It’s a digital marketing company that focuses on helping small and mid sized businesses get more online traffic, which converts into clients sales, always everything, Brandon, thanks for making time today.


Brandon Leibowitz  [00:30]

Thanks for having me on.


Jeff Altman  [00:33]

So, folks, we’re going to be talking about getting into SEO and digital marketing and all that sort of stuff today because there are people who are interested in that kind of work. And I just thought Brandon would be a good person to talk with us about it. So what were you doing before you got into SEO and digital marketing back in the Stone Ages?


Brandon Leibowitz  [00:54]

Before I was doing digital marketing, I was in school or college for business marketing back in 2007, is when I got my degree. But before that, I was just working just random jobs here and there. They were like Domino’s and pick up sticks and deliveries, and had some internships but didn’t really fall into digital until 2000 after I graduate from college, got my degree and first job that offered me a job was to do digital marketing and helping them out. And I didn’t really know much about that and didn’t plan to go into digital. I was just trying to get into marketing. And this one company said ‘we want you to do digital.’ And even though I didn’t know much about it, they said we’re going to take you like classes and workshops and kind of teach you along the way, which was interesting. But that’s kind of how I just fell into it. But before that just had a bunch of random jobs here and there.


Jeff Altman  [01:44]

In 2007, that was the days where it was still called Internet marketing. Am I right about that?


Brandon Leibowitz  [01:53]

Yep, it was called Internet marketing. Now it’s digital. But back then, was doing that internet marketing and helping them out with pretty much all aspects of their website, helping out with like, email marketing, doing paid ads, doing social media, doing search engine optimization, doing, like taking pictures of the products, and writing product descriptions and kind of doing it all. And back then I just realized, like, I was gonna have a website in the future and digital marketing or internet marketing, whatever you want to call it back then, was the future and just kind of stuck with it and realized that SEO was a way to get free traffic. And that’s really why I focused on SEO over the years. It’s just Why spend money on Google ads, when you could get up there for free organically?


Jeff Altman  [02:33]

And it’s funny back in those days, companies didn’t really know what digital marketing was they thought it was like clicks and like, how am I going to make money off of clicks? That seems silly. And they didn’t really understand that, as I recall, because I worked for a guy who didn’t understand that. And I was the one who is more in the vanguard at that firm. So they hired you to do marketing. And you’ve obviously been doing this for quite some time. When people are trying to break in now, like what’s their entry point for doing this? Is it a class? Is it something to do in school? Like, how do people get into this?


Brandon Leibowitz  [03:17]

That one is kind of up to each individual, because there’s not really, I mean, there might be schools now that teach digital marketing, but there really aren’t.. I know, there’s third party schools like General Assembly is kind of like a place where you can learn about digital marketing where I teach classes there, but it’s not like an official college. So not sure if colleges a… I’m sure they are teaching it. But with digital, it just the thing is there is no content, there’s always change every single day, every single hour, every single minute, things are changing. So if you’re reading a textbook or trying to teach a course on it, the stuff that you’re teaching might be relevant, but a lot of it might be outdated, because there’s so much change is going on. So it’s kind of tough. And I just recommend just like reading up on blogs, on forums, watching YouTube videos, you could join Facebook groups seems to be pretty good. But just make sure whatever you’re reading or watching is from like, a couple years ago, like anything older than maybe five years still might be relevant and accurate. But it might have changed. And there’s just so much change that it’s best just to try to just find stuff that’s recent go to like, events, networking events, if they have them. And everything’s a little weird right now, but trade shows are just trying to get out there and just hear other people’s perspectives. Because the more you talk to other people about it, the better off you’re gonna be if you’re just watching stuff or just reading but not trying to actually test them. You’re not going to know what works and what doesn’t work. And that’s a big part is really testing and seeing does this work, or is this an outdated strategy that doesn’t work anymore?


Jeff Altman  [04:47]

That’s interesting. So it’s pretty much the wild west in many respects. It’s just a question what someone will hire you to do.


Brandon Leibowitz  [04:57]

For the most part right now, it’s just there’s nothing official yet, but we’ll have to see schools are kind of realizing that they need to teach this. But it’s so tough to teach social media. And they’re only focused on Instagram and Facebook and they’re missing out on tiktok, that’s a huge audience out there. And it’s tough to keep everything up to date with all the features that are being added or removed on these platforms and all the changes and things that are going on. So it’s tough, especially with social social changes all the time. Well, SEO too. I mean, Google is changing their algorithm every single day. But that’s more behind the scenes that people don’t really see it. But people see the changes that happens on social media where Instagram copies TikTok, and it implements Reels. I think it was like a year or two ago, Instagram copied Snapchat with their stories. And there’s all these things are just constantly changing, and new sites emerge and new sites kind of devolve, or Facebook’s kind of on the decline. It’s still there. But it’s not as popular as it used to be a few years ago,


Jeff Altman  [05:51]

But demographically it’s aged out, or is aging out. And no one cares about them anymore. It’s their parents social network.Yeah. So within the area of digital marketing, there are subsets within it, areas of expertise that fall under digital marketing. Could you lay out some of them. And then let’s go a little bit deeper into what someone should know, breaking into the field.

Preparing for a Job Interview

Brandon Leibowitz  [06:19]

Yep, so there’s a bunch of different aspects. They could do social media is really popular one. Become a social media manager, whether you’re posting on social media, you’re scheduling content out on social media, you’re creating the graphics and imagery, or videos that are being shared on social or you’re running paid ads on social and YouTube …that’s another way to go about it. I like to organically getting up there for free, just because why spend money on ads. Ads do work, it’s just once you start spending money on ads, you just disappear and you’re gone whereas organic, you stopped doing organic, you’re still gonna get that traction, you’re still gonna have that audience that you built up. Whereas the ads, you stop them, you’re just gone. So those are pretty popular ones. There’s social media, trying to just learn how to post content, how to write good captions being like a copywriter, writing, or creating a good visualization video for good video or graphics, that also helps out. Another one would be to do email marketing, become like an email marketer. That’s also a lot of copywriting where you’re trying to write good content or good subject lines to entice people to click on the email because there’s so much spam that goes out, it’s tough to get people to open the emails. But once they open the email, then you’ve got to hook them and keep them interested in, to actually want to do whatever your call to action is. If you want them to go to your website or watch a video or whatever it is, you got to make it compelling. So they actually do that for you. There’s also running paid ads on Google, like doing Google ads, which is a really big one. , Google Ads encompasses like Gmail, YouTube, Google Display Network, which is Google banner ads, which is pretty much Google partners with every website on the internet that runs ads. So if you want to run ads on CNN, Fox, Forbes, New York Times, LA Times, doesn’t matter what website, any website that shows ads, Yahoo. They’re all partnered with Google. So you run ads for Google, and your ads will be shown everywhere. And that one is really important. I feel like not many people focus on Google. Everyone focuses on social media, because it’s all the hype. But Google is a lot better in terms of running ads, because people search on Google. Facebook and everything like that, social media, you’re just interrupting people hoping they’re interested in your product or service where they’re not really searching. They’re not looking. Whereas on Google, they’re actually searching. Or on YouTube, they’re looking so they have that intent behind it. So that’s when I would say, try to maybe look into that. I do SEO, which is search engine optimization. That one is just ranking websites on Google. So trying to figure out how Google’s algorithm works. And it’s really a lot of content marketing, writing articles, press releases, blogging, and just getting as many other websites as possible to talk about you. Like with SEO, it’s a lot of just building up trust, because Google doesn’t trust anybody. And the way to build up trust with Google is by getting other websites to talk about you. And the way to get other websites to talk about you is by blogging, writing articles and just a lot of content marketing. With that one …


Jeff Altman  [09:18]

There’s so much that you’ve already covered and I know there’s more. But I want to go into a little bit deeper on some of these classifications. So when I hear copywriting, no disrespect folks, you got to be semi literate in order to be able to do copywriting. There are techniques that you have to learn along those lines. So if you don’t like writing, this may not be for you. But if you do like writing, like, Are there courses that people take? Are there trainers who train around copywriting that they can order a course from?


Brandon Leibowitz  [09:59]

Yeah, there’s stuff out there. I don’t have any specific ones. But definitely copywriting is such a big, so important, a lot of people kind of skip it over saying, ‘oh, I’ll just throw some copy. Even on your website, you’ve got to have good copywriting. Like everywhere, all  the content you put out there is reflecting your brand. So, copywriting encompasses pretty much a lot. It’s like if you’re a good copywriter, you can find a job in a lot of different fields. It doesn’t have to be doing paid ads or email marketing. You could do product descriptions. You could do billboards or banner ads, or radio ads, commercials, all that stuff, because copywriting is such a really big, big one. And it’s strictly How do you write something that’s captivating and unique and hugs people and keeps them interested, especially nowadays, with attention spans being so short?


Jeff Altman  [10:47]

I know there used to be a copywriter. He used to train other marketers, a guy named Dan Kennedy. And Dan was like one of those old time marketing guys. And a lot of his ideas still work. It’s really interesting to see how the old old stuff can work today in the new media. And I know there’s there’s another guy whose name escapes me right now, who’s a classic copywriter. But it looks like you’re about to say something. Sorry.

When You’ve Been Made Redundant, Fired, Laid Off, RIF’d

Brandon Leibowitz  [11:19]

There’s a bunch of them out there. But I feel like it does translate over. With copywriting, it’s probably the same form that it’s just replacing. If you’re selling dog food or some tennis shoes, it’s replacing it in trying to keep it relevant, for the most part of the transport to provide the same.


Jeff Altman  [11:35]

Gotcha. And in terms of learning how to do SEO. It’s a huge field, quite obviously. How does someone go about learning that,? Where do you start? And where do you escalate to, in order to get more,?


Brandon Leibowitz  [11:51]

The best way is just test it out yourself and go and create a website or buy a website if you can on WordPress or something and start testing and seeing what works because you’ll read up all these different strategies online. And that’s the best way to learn is by reading, but you got to implement it. You can’t just read. Because if you’re not taking action, you’re not going to know if it’s working or it’s not working. Because what people say… you can’t trust what people say online, that’s the big thing is like, just because somebody says this works, or this doesn’t work, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. Like, somebody might say this doesn’t work, but it might be their golden ticket, that it’s making them a ton of money. They don’t want to say it works because you don’t want people doing that strategy. So you never know until you really test them. That’s the biggest thing is a lot of people just read and read and read and they never test or implement the strategies. And then they get hired at jobs, which they might know how to do it. but if they haven’t tested, they might not know what the best strategy really is to implement. So that’s the big thing is, it’s might seem a little overwhelming, but you could just buy a website where its cheaper easily, or go on Blogger, blogspot, WordPress, all these different platforms, and create a website pretty easily and not have to spend any money building the website. It’s free on all these platforms. And then you can start testing. Putting keywords in the different areas and seeing does that rank me? Do I drop down in rankings? Can I rank myself for my own name. That’s a good one that … how to test out? Can I rank my name because there’s not much competition there. And if you can write your name, that’s a good starting point. And then from there, you can start ranking other variations of your name or trying to incorporate different keywords that you might be wanting to promote like myself, I want to rank for like SEO company SEO classes, SEO training. So maybe I start testing out can I rank Brandon Leibowitz SEO, Brandon Liebowitz SEO classes and start seeing if that starts ranking and test it all out. But it’s a lot of just trial and error.


Brandon Leibowitz  [12:05]

You mean, if you read it on the internet, it might not be true?


Brandon Leibowitz  [13:51]

Yeah, and never know, unfortunately, Google can’t filter out from what’s real or not real. So Google is just an algorithm. And they’re not that sophisticated, yet. They’re smart, but they need your help. And they can’t tell the truth or not. I mean, they’re trying to get better, especially with health. That’s one that they’re really careful with, like, health and wellness . .  . Like five years ago, they had this algorithm update. It’s called like EAT, saying, like, we want people with expertise, authority and trust, for health related stuff. We don’t want just somebody writing, here’s how you could lower your cholesterol. And it’s just some random person blogging because people unfortunately believe everything they read online, not everybody, but a lot of people believe what they read. And if someone’s just writing a blog post just to write it, and they’re not expert in that field. And if people read it and take this help or take these recommendations as truth and they’re not true, it’s then that can be really bad. So Google’s really careful about health and all that stuff. But everything else, it’s kind of the wild wild west with content right now. Google’s not really able to pick it up or see what’s viable yet. Trying to but it’s a tricky one.


Jeff Altman  [14:55]

And thus are backlinks really the factor for them to determine authority. What other …what other ways is authority determined by Google in order to determine a site really knows what it’s talking about?



No, backlinks are a big part of it. So backlinks or other websites talking about you. So if you’re reading an article on like the New York Times, and it has a clickable link, and you click on that link, and it takes you to my website, that would be me getting a backlink from the New York Times. So the more websites that talk about me or talk about you, or whoever, the more trust Google’s gonna give you, the higher they’re gonna rank you. But also they are looking at like authorship. So like with the health ones, they want to see, like, Who is this person? Like, if you’re a dentist, and you’re writing all these dental blog posts, they should have your dentist name appended to it, because then Google says ‘okay, this dentist is writing all these blog posts. This dentist seems like he’s an expert in this subject matter. That’s where that EAT algorithm was– Expertise, making sure that you’re an expert. Authority, making sure that you’ve been published on different websites, and Trust is just seeing that all that comes together. So that is a big part nowadays. But Google just has so many variables that look in their algorithm, but a big part really is the backlinks. The backlinks are how Google started back in the day and still to this day, it’s all based off backlinks. It’s changed a lot. They look at them, but it’s still primarily based off those backlinks.

I Was Lowballed on an Offer

Jeff Altman  [16:21]

And excuse me for diving, one more question in. For someone looking at a career relating to back links, it would seem like that’s probably going to be a job that exists offshore, rather than domestic US, that it’s something that someone would be paying a commodity price for. Am I wrong about that?



Some of it is a little tedious. But that used to be true in the past. But nowadays, Google, Google changes their algorithm all the time. And in 2011, they had a big algorithm update that really looks at the backlinks and says we’re not looking. We don’t care about the number of backlinks. We care about the quality of these backlinks. So in the past before 2011, if I had 100 backlinks and you had 101 backlinks, you would rank higher than me. But now Google’s like we want to make sure they’re good quality backlinks and a quality backlink means. It comes from a relevant website and authoritative website. So if I’m like, let’s go back to like a doctor. If you’re a doctor, and you’re getting a backlink from a mechanic, or an auto body shop, that’s gonna look a little weird. Like why is an auto body shop linking to this mechanic? That’s going to throw Google off.  Google wants to see like WebMD is linking to you or Wikipedia and stuff like that, or Yelp, MapQuest, Google Maps, Yellow Page, all these things. Then, they’ll go like, ‘Okay, we trust you a little bit more. But some of it can be outsourced. But you have to be very careful, because when they do it like that, they aren’t building the highest quality backlinks. If they build the wrong backlinks, instead of ranking higher, you actually dropped down which is the last thing we want to happen.


Jeff Altman  [17:56]

It looks like garbage to Google. So back to the idea of careers in (excuse my digression there folks) other careers that exist within digital marketing and how to break into them, because repeat some of the first ones that you mentioned, to the best of your your ability.


Brandon Leibowitz  [18:14]

I feel like the most popular one is really social media. It’s such a big one. But SEO seems to be huge nowadays. Like when I first started doing SEO in 2007, nobody knew what it was. It was tough to get people to want to do SEO. But nowadays, it’s actually less like a year and a half, people realized I have to be online because who knows what’s going to happen offline if everything shuts down, and I can’t sell on like physical retail stores, I now have that presence online. So that’s really, really ramp things up for SEO. And I feel like that’s going to be a big one. Web design or web development, like building websites. It’s also another one if you want to learn how to build websites, you start to learn how to program and learn coding and stuff like that, which I haven’t really touched too much, because it’s a little tricky, and it changes all the time. But nowadays, there’s also like platforms that make it really easy. So you don’t necessarily need to know too much coding like WordPress, Shopify, Wix, Squarespace. So if you want to become a web developer, maybe become an expert in WordPress, and learn how to just build WordPress websites, or you become an expert in Shopify, and those two are the bigger platforms out there. WordPress and Shopify are really, really popular ones. So trying to be a web developer. Definitely learn coding, You have to learn HTML and PHP, maybe JavaScript. I’m not expert in this area with the coding. So I’m not sure what coding languages you would necessarily need to know. It just depends on what you’re trying to do or even building apps. That one’s really popular. Like being an app developer. A lot of people want apps on their cell phones, so you could create apps. That’s great. That also requires coding and not sure what programming languages I know there’s a few different ones that you can learn to build apps. So that might be something that people want to look at, but those are probably the bigger ones, like email marketing. It’s not popular because not many people really talk about it. But email is the most powerful tool for business owners. If you have a business, you need to do email marketing, because look how much spam you get every single day. Email works. Email is the most powerful form of marketing. Not many people talk about it, because it’s just so powerful. They don’t want to tell you how good it is. It’s tough to build an email list. But if you can somehow start capturing people’s emails, that is going to be the most powerful tool you have for marketing.


Jeff Altman  [20:28]

So the classic way of capturing an address is the notion of give something free to someone, of course, that has perceived value. They get added on to the list. And then you’re messaging them regularly. I’m using a vague term there. But there’s regular marketing to them around product, services, additional information. So this way, they get to know, like, trust, respect and want to buy from you.

Recession-Proof Your Career

Brandon Leibowitz  [21:03]

Yep, that is pretty much sums it all up. You got to offer something of value, you can’t just have a pop up saying, subscribe to my newsletter. Nobody’s gonna subscribe to your newsletter. They don’t care about your newsletter. They want to get something for free. So if you’re an e commerce website, selling a product, you could say, ‘I’ll give you 20% off or 10% off your first purchase if you give me your email address, which a lot of E commerce ones do. That one’s easy. If you’re an e-commerce website, if you’re a service base business, it’s a little different. Like if you’re a dentist, what you can really give out for free maybe like a free teeth cleaning or something like that. But even that, it’s gonna be a little tricky. Like for myself, I’m an SEO company. So like I offer a free ebook, or I offer free classes that they could go attend. So just trying to get creative. And the best way is just look at your competitors. Find the competition and see what they’re offering. See what they’re giving away for free and get ideas. Don’t just because they’re doing it, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to be the best way. But definitely spy on the competition, because you could see what their strategies are and try to see is this a good one? Should I try to implement it and also subscribe to their email list. See what emails they’re sending out so you can get ideas of like what type of content they’re getting out, because you don’t want to just be promoting yourself in these emails. You got to be offering value. You got to be giving out free knowledge. You don’t want once you start promoting yourself, that’s where people hit that unsubscribe button. If you’re giving out free content, free value, they’re gonna want to stay subscribed. If you’re a dentist and you got like seven tips to keep your teeth whiter at home, people are gonna be like, ‘Okay, this is great.’ Versus ‘here’s why I’m the best dentist.’ Nobody cares about that. Got to add value.


Jeff Altman  [22:34]

The classic one with SEO is the SEO audits. Every day, there are three in my inbox when they come in on the morning, ‘hey, we’ll give you a free SEO audit.’ Because there’s a service that everyone buys from that delivers that for them that takes no time. But they try to create value out of something they’re already paying for. So SEO is a huge area. Copywriting, not so good. Copywriting is important, but it seems to be a subset for other things. You gave me the look that said, ‘mmmm, not quite.’


Brandon Leibowitz  [23:15]

It’s a good. It’s a good one to learn. But it’s tough to go specifically into copywriting. But copywriting just falls under pretty much all services because people want good copywriters. If you’re a good copywriter, people will definitely want to hire you because you’re going to add a lot of value.


Jeff Altman  [23:30]

And then there’s web design, which I know is not your expertise. But you mentioned developing WordPress sites, developing Shopify services. And Shopify, I tend to think is a shopping framework, a shopping store for people to sell products and services. If someone were trying to sell stuff on Etsy, where does that fall on Etsy or other platforms? Is it part of the social media landscape? Like how does that fit?


Brandon Leibowitz  [24:03]

That one kind of falls under maybe social and SEO because what’s happening is like you’re renting space like on Etsy or eBay. All these platforms are sites like you don’t own it. Etsy owns it. You’re just listing it there. They’re gonna take a fee out of it, or they might charge you a fee. I’m not sure how Etsy charges but you’re just renting space off of them. And you really want to own everything, like even social media, like you’re a business owner, you’re just renting space off Facebook and Instagram, YouTube and Pinterest, all these platforms. Your website is what you have full control over so you really want to own like have a website. I always tell people have a website because you never know what’s gonna happen. Like etsy might disappear in a few years and if you just focused on Etsy and you’re getting a ton of traffic on Etsy, but then Etsy shuts down, you don’t have anything else Now you’re gonna just be like I got to start all over again. So you got to own everything and really take ownership and have a website that’s pretty good that full control. But Etsy is a good place for crafting and stuff like that, where it’s really has a huge audience there. So I would sell on your website, but also put it on Etsy as well. And that’s where you could like do some SEO on your Etsy store where you can put the keywords in different places to try to optimize it, and things like that. So you can do at SEO on Etsy.

Personal Branding Shouldn’t Be Neglected

Jeff Altman  [25:21]

Cool. So we’ve got, I’m gonna miss one or two along the way. So remind me of some of the pointers here. So we’ve covered SEO, copywriting, websites, what am I missing that we should talk about how people can break into the field that would have value for you? Or for them?


Brandon Leibowitz  [25:49]

Social media is a big one.


Jeff Altman  [25:50]

How does one become a social media manager? What’s the pathway?


Brandon Leibowitz  [25:55]

You just got to be good at social. And nowadays, all teenagers and anyone that’s using social media has an expertise. And it’s, it’s got another reason like, if you’re trying to become a social media manager, and you’ve never use TikTok, it’s probably not going to work out too well, you got to be using all these platforms. Even though you might not want to be on Tik Tok, you need to know how to use these platforms. So first thing is you’ve got to create an account on all these platforms and play with them and test them out and see how you post on each one. Each one’s gonna be slightly different in terms of like, the length that you can post, is it vertical or horizontal, the imagery . . .  are the videos. . .  is it going to be a lot of different things in it. So you got to know how to post on it, how to write captions. On Instagram versus Twitter, you’re limited to how much space you have versus TikTok and all the other platforms. So it’s really just jumping in all these platforms, and just playing around and start testing out strategies and seeing if you can build up an audience on them. So maybe you’re passionate about whatever it is. Like you might be passionate about soccer, make a soccer page and see if you can build up an audience. And then if you build up an audience, you can start reaching out to these companies and say, hey, I want to be a social media manager. Look, I’ve built up these platforms. And these are my pages. I’m active on them. And that’s your… pretty much a resume right there. Your portfolio is showing them what you’ve worked on in the past. So don’t just try to jump in without actually playing around these platforms and joining all these platforms. That’s probably the biggest piece of it.


Jeff Altman  [26:09]

Gotcha. Now I’m gonna digress into something else, just for the heck of it. And let’s see if I get a smile on your face or if you start rolling your eyes, okay? And it’s the idea of, for those folks who have LinkedIn profiles, and they want to SEO, their profile to get attention, could you point to a couple of things that they should be doing to SEO their profile.


Brandon Leibowitz  [27:50]

So with LinkedIn, it’s pretty much the same. It’s like you have your own website. So LinkedIn, you could put keywords in different places to help LinkedIn find you or people searching on LinkedIn find you better. So making sure that when you write in the resume, write really descriptive and like keyword rich kind of things that you’ve done. So don’t just say like, I worked here for seven years, and I was managing their website and say, like, what specific tasks you were doing, like get really granular and detailed because people search. And if you don’t have those keywords on your resume or on that page, they’re not going to find you. But if you have those words, if you just mentioned it once the word SEO, it will trigger LinkedIn algorithm for someone searching for SEO to potentially show you. Might not be at the top, but you’ll definitely show up in there. So making sure you fill it out. And the more content you put the better. Like we were talking about copywriting. Gotta put that content there. So you don’t have to be a good copywriter, but you just have to add a lot of content. And just be descriptive. Don’t hold back. More is better in terms of text, because that’s how they all feed off is text. They need content on these platforms– Facebook, Google, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, they all need text. They can’t really read images or videos yet, so the more content you put, the better. Getting recommendations is also really helpful. Do you get like past employers or coworkers to write recommendations for you? That really helps out or get people to recommend you for all these different like subject matter topics? Having them, that’s really, I think those things will be the most helpful and having a good title. Having a good title on your LinkedIn. So don’t just put like your name but like put something interesting or like get a copywriting like I put a my LinkedIn, get more traffic and sales without spending money on ads to your website. So something like that really keeping them hooked like okay, how this person helped me out.


Jeff Altman  [29:46]

To draw people to you. This is fun. What haven’t we covered yet that we really should.


Brandon Leibowitz  [29:55]

Main thing is just being patient with all this stuff, but digital marketing. . .  Like, if you’re building up like these platforms, or building out a social media platform or social media page or building a website, it’s gonna take time to get these rankings really get traction. So I would say start sooner than later because if you’re trying to transition careers, it does help out to have a little portfolio of stuff that you’ve worked on in the past to show potential employers or whoever it may be. Or if you want to do freelance work, you do freelance work as well. And you try to pick up clients here and there. So you don’t have to necessarily work at a full time job. But you could just go to different restaurants or stores, nearby local places, and kind of pitch your services to them. Of course, they’re gonna want to say like, see what you’ve done in the past. That’s why showing them like, ‘here’s a social media page I’ve done,’ ‘here’s a website that I rank,’ it helps build that trust up, that they know that you know what you’re doing to build that. But there’s a lot of different routes you could go. You don’t necessarily have to work full time at a company. You could just do this freelance, which … that’s the thing that I really liked about digital is you work full time and pick up clients here and there. And eventually, you could try to make this a full time job. Doing the freelance work, instead of working a full time job, you make your own job, or make your own company out of it.


Jeff Altman  [31:09]

Can people find out more about you in the work that you do?


Brandon Leibowitz  [31:13]

So for everyone that’s listening or watching I created a special gift for them. If they go to my website, it’s gift. They can find that there that’s


Jeff Altman  [31:33]

And you’ll notice, folks, he’s got something of value there for you. So go sign up. You’ll learn a lot from him. Brandon. Thank you. And folks, we’ll be back soon with more. I’m Jeff Altman. Hope you enjoyed today’s interview. If you did and you’re watching on YouTube, share it, leave a comment, do something that lets people know it was worthwhile. And visit my website, where I’ve got a ton in the blog to help you with Job Search, hiring more effectively, management, leadership and more. And while you’re at the site, you can find out about my courses that you can purchase or rent, my books and guides . . . there’s just a lot there that will help you professionally. Also connect with me on LinkedIn at Have a terrific day and most importantly, be great! Take care!

Stupid Resume Mistakes: Misconfigured Resumes


Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter

Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with over 2400 episodes.

Are you interested in 1:1 coaching, interview coaching, advice about networking more effectively, how to negotiate your offer or leadership coaching? People hire me to provide No BS career advice whether that is about a job search, hiring better, leadership, management or support with a workplace issue. Schedule a discovery call at my website, 

My courses are available on my The courses include ones about Informational InterviewsInterviewing, final interview preparation, salary negotiation mistakes to avoidthe top 10 questions to prepare for on any job interview, and starting a new job.

I do a livestream on LinkedIn, YouTube (on the account) and on Facebook (on the Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter page) Tuesdays and Fridays at 1 PM Eastern. You can send your questions about job search, hiring better, management, leadership or to get advice about a workplace issue to me via messaging on LinkedIn or in chat during the approximately 30 minute show.

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Freelancing or hiring a freelancer: or Freelancer:

To set up your freelance business correctly: incorporate

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Watch my videos on YouTube at, the Job Search TV app for fireTV or a firestick or for Apple TV, and 90+ smart tv’s.

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