Being Bold? No, SUPERBOLD! |

If you’ve ever wanted to light up an interview or any other place in your life, my interview with Fred Joyal is something you should listen to. You can purchase his book with this link

So my guest today is Fred Joyal, Fred is the author of the Super Bokd, Super Bold. And it’s from under confident to charismatic in 90 days. And for many of you, it’s an important thing for you to work out because you’ve been beaten up for so long that you don’t realize you’ve been beaten up. So Fred is someone who I think you may know, one of his businesses, 1800 dentist, 1800 dentist, and he’s also dabbled in stand up in improv, and acted in bad movies. And in great TV commercials. Which commercials have you been in?

My own? Okay.

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Perfect. He’s played, he played in beat Richard Branson and chess on the island, and was also an answer to a Jeopardy question. I love that part of the book. And that’s really part of what we’re talking about how you stand out from everyone else. Fred, thanks for making time to talk to everyone today. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, I’m excited to be here and impart a little life wisdom or life tools that people can use.

And thus, it starts off with the question of Super Bold. Yes. What do you mean by Super Bold? And how would you translate that for someone? That’s just a Super Bold? What do you mean by being bold, or super bold?

So Boldness is confidence in action. It’s, you know, confidence is something you want to feel. But you have to take it into action. Bold people do stuff, they take chances, they take risks, they start businesses, they ask for raises, they introduce themselves to anybody they want to meet. And, and super bold is to be able to summon that boldness whenever you want. And people say, Well, you’re they may be born that way. You know, that’s the way they act. I can’t do that. Well, I’m a bold introvert. I started off in my life incredibly shy, but I figured out ways to become as bold as I wanted to be. Now it took me way longer. I’ve distilled it down to something somebody can learn much more quickly, and then keep on working it the rest of their life.

That’s really cool. Because so often, I’ll speak for myself, you know, I grew up as a lower middle class kid in the Bronx. And I used to pop like Sylvester Stallone, you know, Ben de I was raised to talk. And I got to college, I was treated like an idiot. I can’t imagine why No,

No, it’s, it’s strange.

And in making conscious choices, I didn’t want to be that way. I knew I had to work at it. My first interim step was a funny British accent. I realized how ridiculous I sounded. Talking through New York, like this eventually just changed my speaking style one more time, to where it is now. Practice will help people get better. So I get where you’re coming from. Because I’ve lived my version of,

yeah, well, you you’ve done stuff to change yourself. And that’s all this is really about is like, somebody has to decide they want to be more confident, they want to act with boldness, they want to be able to summon that when they whenever they needed whenever they want. I can’t make somebody want to change, I can’t make them want to change by reading the book, they got to read the book and go, Yeah, this is who I want to become. And I’ll show him exactly how to do it. I’ll show him a fast and simple way to keep expanding their comfort zone wider and wider and wider. Till they they really achieve their dreams. And, you know, they achieved their dream, maybe a better career and maybe a better relationship. Why wouldn’t it be all of those things, you know, so

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it should be and I’m going to pick on one word in your subtitle. And I love that word, because I know when employers hire competence is only one thing they look for chemistry, confidence, chemistry, maybe a little bit of charisma, self confidence. They, they want someone who cares. But that word charisma I’m always asked about, gee, I don’t think I’m really charismatic. I don’t want to become charismatic.

Well, that’s, that’s, that’s what boldness does. When somebody is bold enough when they’re confident just in a way that just radiates from them. That’s all the charisma is, is somebody just feeling so good about themselves, that they attract people and they’re very positive people. They’re their tribe. To make stuff better than they’re really comfortable making other people feel better about themselves. And that’s a lot of what I talked about in the book is it’s not just being bold, it’s like being bold in a, in a way that uplifts other people, as you’re achieving your dreams, because that’s, that’s gonna be the most satisfying life. And when you do that, in some of the things, I have very specific ways that I talk about how, for example, you make somebody that you’re talking to feel like they’re the only person in the room. That’s a life skill, you can learn that. But when you do that, people never forget you. And they go, they’ll say, I met Jeff, like five years ago. Yeah, really interesting, charming guy love the guy. You may not have said five words to them. But you ask them a whole bunch of questions about their life. Right? You show that you were totally interested in them, and only them at that moment. And that made a huge impression. That’s what charisma is. Charisma is this magic that occurs when you exude confidence. And you care and are really interested in people.

Bill Clinton was really good, or actually is really good at that. And if memory serves me right, again, experience of him at one point where he captivated everyone he met with we’re sure that story.

Yeah. So this was in he was fundraising. For his first campaign, it was at a large home in Beverly Hills, and there were several 100 people there. And he would meet people, one at a time. And he would lock on to them. And and that you could tell that they and it would be 30 seconds. That’s Are you shaking their hand, he’s, he’s asking them something, or they’re saying something. And you know, and I remember this, this one woman had come up to him and said, you know, my brother died in the Gulf War. And and, you know, people have forgotten about that. And he looked right at her and he said, I haven’t forgotten. So he listened to to exactly what she said. And he thought about what would be the most connected thing he could say to her. And, and she was in tears, she turned away she was in tears. And so I really believe that’s part of why he got elected is he could he, he could exude that charisma, one person at a time and then eventually to large audiences.

It’s funny, one of one of the hat phrases that he would say is I feel your pain. And in retrospect, as were many years removed from his presidency, he really gave you the feeling that he felt your pain. Yeah, it for interviewers, or for interviewers still looking for any sort of a connection with the person opposite that. Yeah. And often, everyone’s a little robot there, right?

Yeah. Yeah, this is the and this is a guy that had to admit his infidelities to the world back when back when it mattered, apparently. You know, and but but that’s, it’s the same thing. For any one of us. It’s for you and me, I’m we’re going to talk about stuff that matters to me. And hopefully, I’m going to find things that matter to you. That That I can And that people who are listening on the go, yeah, that that resonates with me. And I do want to become bolder, I want to be bolder for that reason. And that’s part of what I tell people is like, this isn’t just so you’re the life of the party, it’s because there are going to be these moments that these opportunities come up, you’re going to get one chance, and it’s going to be brief. And you’re not going to want to hesitate. Because if you do, you’re going to regret it the rest of your life, it will be a create turning point in your life that you will miss and it may be somebody that you meet. That could be a connection for work, it could be a relationship, it could be giving a eulogy for a close friend or a parent. And you and I so many people, I met funerals, often unfortunately, as you get older and older and and there are people who, who I know are close to these people, they won’t get up and say anything. I’ve read eulogies for other people, because you’re like, I’m not a good public speaker. It’s like you want to be able to get up and say what you feel about that person, you’re going to get one chance at that. And life is full of these things. You want to be the one that stepped up that didn’t stop yourself. And that’s what Boldness is Most people do not stop themselves. They act, they take a shot, they go out, they put themselves out there, they don’t worry about rejection or embarrassment or any of those things. And that’s the difference

And folks, if you take away anything from this conversation, you’re going to take away more, but I want you to hear that statement again. Both people don’t stop themselves from acting as suffocate. Yeah, so yeah,

I’m afraid. Ooh,

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People might laugh at me. I’ll be embarrassed. I might fail. Oh, really? It? How did you think you learn to speak English or, or walk? So, I mean, it’s like bold people go like failures are just, that’s a stairway up for them. It’s like a bumped into that wall and that wall and that wall. Oh, I got through, I found the door. You know, that’s, that’s the difference. And the thing about under confident people, and people who tell themselves they’re shy, or people who hesitate is they’re really good at coming up with what could happen, that’s bad. Or interpreting it as bad what what they can think of all the bad things that might happen. What they’re terrible at, is calculating the odds of those things actually happening. You know, they think it’s like, 90% chance it’s gonna happen. And it’s like to write bold people go, I don’t even have to calculate the odds, because I’m gonna, I’m gonna deal with whatever happens.

So what can people start to do to become more bold, more charismatic? What sort of actions can they practice in order to start moving the needle? Knowing that it’s going to take time?

Yeah. So the, the way my book is structured is I talk about the mindset and I talk about some some social skills and communication tools. And then I dive into a whole series of exercises, five levels of boldness, muscle exercises, that you’re going to do, from from wherever you are, you could be a total shy closet case kind of person that just, you know, like, you can’t look people in the eye, right? I’m gonna, I’m gonna start you wherever you are, and move you up and up and up at a pace you can handle. But you’re going to start to do exercises that are many of them are aimed for failure. It’s like you’re going to, you’re going to smile at people until somebody doesn’t smile back, and then you’re going to go, nothing bad happened. They just didn’t smile back. You have and it’s, I want you to register that you have no idea what headspace that other person is in. They can could be the worst day of their life. They could have just gotten fired, just gotten divorced, their blood sugar could have plummeted or whatever. You don’t know. So why are you taking it on? Why are you worried about oh, people, people are gonna think this about me? It’s like, Why do you care? What? Why would their opinions matter to you? You don’t know that? Right? So I’m gonna have you start doing simple things like smiling at people then maybe introduce yourself to a stranger every day. With no agenda. It’s, it’s, uh, you’re just gonna be me, you may just say hi. Just wanted to say hi. Just wanted to say that that hat looks righteous on you. And you know, you should wear it every day, you know, or whatever, I call it doing a drive by compliment, right you do it, you have no expectation no agenda. And when people feel you’ve got you got no ulterior motive. They just glow with it. Again, this is part of being charismatic is you you’re generous with your praise with your compliments with with your, your uplifting voice. And when you do that, it becomes magical. You feel like like wow, I’m it’s like you’re walking around, touching people with a wand. You know, because a complete stranger has gone out of their way to say something nice to them. And and then I’m going to build you up, you’re gonna start to do crazier and crazier things as the exercises go up. I’m gonna have you every time you see an employee’s only do sign you’re going in, right? Because you’re going to find out, nothing bad happens. If it’s unlocked and you go in. Nobody’s going to beat you to death on the other side. Right? Nobody’s going to arrest you. Half the time. Nobody’s going to say anything. Because they think you belong there. This is this is the other thing I want to drive home. And it’s not really in the book. But I said to people all the time. It’s like I want this to be your mantra. I belong everywhere. I belong everywhere. There’s nowhere I don’t belong. It’s a choice to feel like you don’t belong. So choose to feel like you belong. Wherever you are, you can be. I’ve been I’ve met billionaires, okay, guys who, who, who will make more money than if I live to, you know, 500 I couldn’t catch up to them. And I, I treat them like people. I’ve been in situations where I’m the worst dress like I’m the most underdressed person there. I still belong there. You know why? Because I’m just a human being like everybody else. They’re all just human beings. They may have a toxin, and I may have jeans on. But I belong there, because I’m there. Because I felt myself that.

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And folks, just want to remind you that would Fred’s doing here is to feeding the programming you’ve gotten throughout a good part of your life, with different tools and tactics. Because when you think about school, I don’t know what it’s like in other countries, I went to school in the US. And basically, the idea of school was shut up and do what we tell you to do when we tell you to do it. regurgitate the facts, when we ask for the facts, or else Or else, you won’t get a good grade and get into the college you want to get into. You will be a bomb and regresses in college, you won’t get the good job. And then you find that when you get a good job some you do a good job by being obedient and following instructions and doing people do what people tell you to do. And one day they fire you because the economy sour you go, what happened? I was doing a good job. And being a conformist doesn’t really serve most of the time, does it?

No, I mean, that’s why when you’re in that job, and you’re doing it in the conformist way, you see somebody else get a promotion, you see somebody else get a raise, you see somebody else move to a different business, and then with a better job, you see them start their own business, and you’re like, how is this happening? It’s like it’s happening. Because you’re not conforming, they’re not they’re not waiting for somebody to tell them. Yes, they’re waiting. They’re not stopping themselves till somebody says no. And then sometimes they take it as not yet. And they try to find their way through anyway. So And sadly, as you say, this stuff is it’s not taught in school, your you are not taught even, you’re not taught how to shake hands and make eye contact. Right? You’re not taught how to introduce yourself to anybody you want to meet. But why the heck not? Why wouldn’t that be a life skill? We got it, we got to spend like two days learning how to drive a car, then take the test, and another two weeks to learn how to actually physically drive it. And somebody is going to check to see if we know how that but but know how to beat somebody that you would like to meet, know how to talk like a normal person don’t know how to show you’re interested in that. Nobody teaches you that.

Agree. I was thinking the story about Steven Spielberg as a young man and how he really got launched in the movie business. He was on a tour. And he wore a suit that day and carried a briefcase. And one day he hopped off the tour bus. And he walked into one of the studio buildings and just started working on his movie. And no one championship. And he did this for a month before someone noticed him. And they said what do you do? A movie? Like how did you get me here? And he told them and

Door was open? Yeah, basically. And yeah, the beauty and the story is if you’ve seen his movies, his his company’s called ambulate. Yeah, and that was the name of the first movie. He worked on Amblin it’s a hokey movie. Maybe I’m looking at it from older eyes. But he was like 16 years old at the time doing right.

He did make Schindler’s List. So you know. Yeah, he’s got he’s got some sophistication to it. We got that. But fundamentally, for those of you who hold back, what’s the risk for you to do things differently? What might happen?

So well, is that a classic example of I belong here or not? I just went, I’m here. I must belong here. So, right. I got the suit the prove it. Yeah. So can you give us a couple of exercises that people can do? I know you mentioned smiling, which I’m pretty good at.

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Yes, you are there. But a lot of people aren’t. A lot of people are. They’re stingy with their smile. I smile at everybody. I talked to anybody in an elevator. I just stopped I’ll say something Next, you know, the guy that just got out with too much cologne on I’ll turn it to the person I’ll go, that was quite a bit of Cologne. And they’ll go, oh my god, I thought it was me. But yeah, but yes, that’s that is amazing. I said Yeah, I think there’s some on me still, you know, or and you just had this little exchange talk to strangers that’s like you pretend you’re not five years old anymore talk to strangers and and interact with without an agenda but you know then there’s little exercises and other interact without an agenda, it say more about hat? Well, you know when they say oh, you’re going to network, you’re going to meet people, it’s the worst motivation to walk into a room of people that you may want to know, what you should do is you walk in in there and say, I’m going to I’m going to make five people in this room feel really good about themselves. And I’m going to find out something really interesting about those five people. That should be your agenda. I you know, as I said before you you can have a conversation with somebody. And all you and this is one of the key rules, power tools of life. ask good questions. And and when when somebody says something interesting, you don’t try to top it. You go tell me more about that. If they say I like that people do this all the time, somebody will say I was I just got back from Rome. And they’ll say, oh, yeah, I was in Rome. Five years ago, I saw the Rolling Stones at the Colosseum, you know, and it rained and it was like, I was like, I can’t top that I just I just drank espresso and walked around in ROM. So it’s like, so that you’ve you’ve imbalance that instead of going, really? What was your favorite part of Rome? What town town I want to go back and I want if I miss something, I want you to tell me what that would be. And you and see that the nature of the question. I’m eliciting them to talk more about themselves. And I’m, I’m locked on a lockdown like Bill Clinton. I’m like, I’m attending to them. I am listening actively to what they have to say. And I’m not waiting to tell them something. I’m not trying to be funnier than them. I’m not trying to be smarter than them. I’m not trying to correct them. I I can correct anybody’s grammar that I’m talking to you. Do you think that would endear me to them? If I did that?

I don’t think so. To translate. You’re one of the outcomes of this because often people don’t understand why this is a great thing to do. One of the things I learned as a headhunter was the more they talk on the interview, the more they like you. Yeah. So every time you’re there, basking in their magnificence, listening to everything that they’re saying is those the most important words that could ever be uttered by a human being on the planet. They like you more doesn’t mean necessarily, you’ll get hired, but you’re getting ahead of the situation by being the one that they like, and are interested in, because you’re willing to listen and make them feel important. Instead of yourself feel important.

For Yeah, that’s they’re coming away. And they’ll say, Wow, she was great. I loved meeting her. She was so interesting. And then you and they know nothing about her because she was just great at asking, asking questions, and making them feel like they’re the most important person in the room. And they just go She’s amazing. You got to meet her. This is what this is. What you don’t plan for and you can’t really strategize is your boldness and your charisma when it radiates. All the a lot of the interesting stuff comes completely out of left field. I think it happened to me yesterday that I was walking around this trade show with with somebody. And this this man recognize me recognizes me starts to tell a compass over talks to me starts to tell me that the woman who is with you need to know this guy, right? He says he knows more about marketing in this industry than anybody. It’s just like, I wasn’t that I’ve never heard of you. And I said, I don’t know. Right but but he I let him he and before I was done, she was ready for a full on marketing consultation with me because I had connected with him three four years ago and and really just did exactly that. I was just interested in his story. I didn’t tell him that much about me. So To do who I was. But what I did was he thought he considers me like an icon in my industry. So the fact that I talked to him at all, he was so happy about the fact that I listened to him, and remembered what he said and all of that even remembering his name, which is, hey, one of the things that people when they’re anxious, and they don’t relax in a conversation, they forget the people’s names. Use their name, say their name. Say it again, the next time you see him, know it, those things, people love their names. This is not a mystery, right? But we get if you forget it, you say, Look, you told me such an interesting thing that I forgot your name. Please remind me of your name one more time, right? You you imbedded a compliment in the request, instead of going I’m really bad with names. Can you tell me a name again? Right. It’s like, that’s like, you’re so unimportant. I didn’t register anything about you, including your name. Right? That’s when you say it that way.

You’re less important than a social security number. That’s what you say? Because everyone knows the social security number, right? It was ridiculous numbers arbitrarily chosen. But I can’t remember names.

Yes, right. Yeah, you can remember all of these digits, you know, happy people remember the whole credit cards and everything like that. So and the secret gotta remember the secret code and all that. So what what I do is with the exercises is huge. You just start to do them, you do them every day. Now there’s a method I call the pride method, which is a five step method for doing exercises and building your boldness. You can also use it in real situations, but you’re going to use it in the exercises, to figure out what bold people already know, which is 99% of the time, nothing bad happens. And very often something good happens. And, and hey, everything good in my life. I can probably attribute to some act of boldness somewhere along the line. Either the the job, I got the business, I’m in the relationships, I have the friends I have. All just like I you know, I have a lifelong friend that I met the first day of college, it was just as I decided to talk to him because he was from the south Yeti. Interesting accent. He’s from Louisiana, when I started chatting with him. One of my best friends, it’s still to this day, because I just I didn’t sit there saying I you know, I’m shy. Right? What this is, the thing is, I always attack people who say I’m shy. It’s like, No, you behave in a shy way. You’re you’re tall, or you’re short, or you’re heavy, or you’re skinny, or you’re blonde, or you’re brunette, that’s what you are, you are not shy, you’re behaving in a shy manner. And I’ll bet you can come up with 20 times when you didn’t behave shyly at all. You were in Thanksgiving dinner with all your friends and family and you there was nothing shy about you is screaming at the football game, you’re, you know, you’re making fun of your cousin. So you’re not shy, you’re just you act shy. Sometimes, unfortunately, when it matters most that you shouldn’t, you know, there’s a whole bunch of people who are confident until it matters, till it until it until the time they actually have to step up. That’s what super bold is, is like, you step up, you never stop yourself. But when it really matters, that’s when you bring it and you mentioned is one of the exercises smiling. Another one was going through the door for employees only. And really focusing on the person that you’re speaking with. As examples of three exercises, you want to offer one or two more.

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Sure. One of the things that and this is just a, a silly thing, wear a BandAid on your face, like like right here, like right across your forehead, wear it all day, right? And embrace that sense that you go like people are looking at me, because you need to let go of the fact that people are thinking about you all the time. And that that matters. You know, I can remember being a teenager like I have a pimple it’s like, I can’t go out of the house. Why would that make any difference? Somebody Look at me go he’s got a pimple. It’s not permanent, but he clearly has a feminine, so what and so that the band aid makes you realize that your self consciousness is self administered and you want to defeat it. I actually I did this lecture to talking about Super Bowl this to about 500 high school kids. And they were really dialed in, it was really great. They were extremely receptive. And then after lunch, I came back from lunch. And five of the kids had band aids on their face. Right? And I said, and they were and other people like, Wait, did you get band aids? I want to do that. It was like they had some of they found like, you know, the, the the first aid kit in the, in the school and grab some band aids? And it was like, yes, yes, you’re getting it. So it’s just, it’s so you, you know, there’s so many insights that change how you do this. One is that people are not thinking about you anywhere near as much as you think they are. Who are they thinking about? themselves? That right? They go right, they think about you for three to eight seconds, and then they go back to their favorite subject. Right? So stop worrying about this so much. One of the exercises I have in the book is to make a list of all the people that you know, and rank on a scale of one to 10, how much their opinion should matter to you not how much it does, because you could be out of control? And how much you how much should it on a scale of one to 10. And I guarantee you, if there’s more than five people that rank 10, I would be amazed. And the rest of the people should be a one or a two, maybe a three, man whole bunch of them should be a zero. Right? Because whose you know, your mentor should matter to you, your spouse should matter to you, your your siblings should matter to you, your boss should matter to you. After that, why are you so worried about these people’s opinions of you? First of all, are they right about you? Are they are they taking a snapshot and they’re making a decision? I mean, people are judging people by social media, by the best pictures they could possibly be posting of themselves. Or and even retouching them instead. And then going, Oh, I know this guy, you know, I just happen to meet people say, Oh, I met this actor, he was a total jerk. I said, Oh, really, you know that he’s a total jerk, because he didn’t say hi to you. So you understand him as a human being. Right? And you understand that deep down? He’s a jerk. Right? It’s like we do this. So why would you worry about that person’s opinion. When you learn to discard those opinions, you’re unstoppable.

And folks, I want to translate this into interviewing for a moment. Practicing this shift makes you more powerful on interviews. If you act like a sheep, on an interview, there’s other sheep with comparable skills that are going to come in and be interviewed. And if everyone is a sheep, there’s nothing for the hiring manager to choose between. Pretty similar, but if you are magnificent, if you are super bold,

yes, you’re cutting to the front of the line for a lot of people, some people you may overwhelm it happens. But the idea is you’re like a product. They put colors on these product boxes, right? Hey, doubt that the colors are designed to attract people, and your personality is the color in the commentary that’s gonna make you stand out from everyone else.

Yeah, and and do you say, Oh, I don’t want to be too much. Oh, so you want to be not enough? Is that what you’re aiming for, I would rather be too much in some situations and be able to dial it back. That’d be not enough and never get a chance to dial it up. Because that’s what happens when you’re when you’re hesitating. When you know, hesitation is the opportunity killer. That’s, you know, in life in your career. If you see somebody that could advance your career, now, they may not be able to hire you or something like that. But you may be able to say, I’m really thinking of moving into you know, the the marketing department, you know, I know I’ve been in sales for a while but I feel like I could be in marketing. And I and I know you’re you’re the head of a marketing at this company. What qualifies? What would what does it take to qualify? How’d you get there? And you interrogate them? You go like, when did you know that you wanted to do it? What do you know? When did why did you feel like you had a grip on them? What what resources did you use? What are they going to think about you? They’re thinking? If I had a business I hired this guy, right or I hired this woman she’s she’s so curious about I’m getting better that I want to work in for me, or I’m going to the next time somebody says, because this happens to me all the time, too. I got three emails right now, do you know a person who does blank, right? Where I know somebody who needs one. That’s how 80% of the jobs you’re going to get are going to come from those things. So it’s about did you make an impression? Did you seem intelligent, curious, interested? Charismatic, because that they’re going to remember you and they’re going to somebody says, I’m looking for, you know, somebody in my marketing department, I need somebody who’s willing to grow because I get a marketing director, she needs a right hand. And you go, I know exactly who that is. I met him two months ago. Let me find his name. You know, that’s what happens. It’s funny, because we talked about the smile at the beginning. What makes people think someone is self confident, a smile, a twinkle in the eyes, right? And if you’re deadly serious, you may be extremely competent. But is there anything for people to really attach to? Is there a likability factor? Other you’ve demonstrated great competence, obviously. But the smile, the twinkle, it shifts the conversation to human from the I’m going to hammer my knowledge into your head until it you’re the skull just explodes? Doesn’t work, does it?

Well, you know, one of the things I talked about, I have a list of things of what not to do, when you’re doing social interaction. And I talked about some of that by, you know, playing top this, and you know, I get, I get a better story than you are trying to be funny. If you’re funny, be funny, occasionally, but again, that makes it a competition, somebody has got to be funnier than you, why not go. That’s the funniest thing I ever heard. Even if it isn’t, somebody let somebody else be funny. But the thing that that under confident people and shy people do is when somebody finally lets them talk, they unload, they go into a model, an unbroken stream, because they’re there. They’re not shy. They’re just hesitating. And when somebody finally lets them talk, they can’t stop. They’re like, they’re it’s it’s this stream of, of consciousness. And there’s no pause in between. It’s really hard to listen to somebody do. And it doesn’t make you interesting, it doesn’t matter how interesting what you say is, you didn’t give them a chance to say, oh, you know, tell me more about that. Or that’s interesting. Or, you know, I didn’t understand that, or I don’t, you didn’t check to see if they care, right? You didn’t notice that they were looking in three directions, and the whole time you’re talking, cuz you never took a break? The second you catch yourself monologuing you need you need to stop talking, and then say, I’m really passionate about that. You know, I’m sorry, I go on. But But tell me more about this trip to Rome, you were not immediately ask your question. And you’ll see the relief on their faces.

The Final Interview with the CEO

It’s so true, is relief. Fred, how can people find out more about you Super Bowl, your work? How can they connect with you? Okay, so Fred is my website J OYAL? Yeah, thank you. So, and it’s, you know, just, you know, I have my name everywhere, and it’s my Facebook and my Instagram and all of that stuff. But the website is, is a place where you could find out a lot more about me and see, see, lectures I’ve done and articles that I’ve done. It’s also and if you want to order the, it’s gonna be on Amazon, of course, it’s it’s, it’s there. It’s in hardcover, it’s in audio, it’s me reading the audio, and it’s on Kindle as well. So it’s a digital form. And if you go to other media, like Barnes and Noble, it’s there too. So you can get it those three ways. If you don’t buy the book, the hardcover, you can go to the website, let’s say you got the Kindle or the audio version, you’re you’re listening on Audible, you want the exercises. So you can go to my website and download a PDF of the exercises. You can also go to my website and then and download the first chapter, if you want to do that. But I want you to physically have the exercises. And there’s also journaling that you’re going to do in the book. The book is about taking action. It is not a novel, it is not something to read for entertainment. It is about changing your life and that means you’re going to have to do stuff. And the journaling helps you and then The exercises are there. So for you to do step by step, and you’ll understand the pride method, and all these and power tools of communication. All of this stuff is is there in the book. So, Fred, go to Amazon to buy the book. You can even book if you got a 30 if you need 30 minutes, because you go like, no, no, I really am shy, I can’t get out of the house. I can’t, I can’t look people in the eye, or whatever. Or you say, like I’m a CEO, and I can’t I need to interact with people and I I stink at it. I’ll do a half hour consultation with you just book it, go to my website and book. I’ll talk you off the ledge. I’ll get you out of the house.

Excellent, Fred, this has been wonderful. Thank you. 



Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter

Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with more than 2200 episodes.

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