I’ve been doing more shows about networking since the pandemic started because the rules of the game have changed. Phil Pelucha of Billionaires in Boxers (yes, you’re reading that right) and I have a great conversation about how to effectively do digital networking

Be a Digital Networking Pro | JobSearchTV.com

You may also find, “Branding and Networking for Digital Pros and Others” helpful

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Jeff
So my guest today is Phil Pelucha, who's CEO of BIB talent in media. Phil, why don't you introduce everyone? I am going to try the language a little bit better. Why don't you introduce yourself to everyone? That sounds better.

Phil
Awesome. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's, we're having a great chat in the, I like to call it the virtual Green Room ahead of time. Yeah, thank you so much. So I am the CEO and host of billionaires in boxes, talent, and media, which essentially takes two forms. I own a media business that specializes in podcasting of all things; and I own a talent and recruitment business, which has kind of been my bread and butter for the past 10, 15 years.

Jeff
Fabulous, and, you know, we're going to be focusing on the talent side of this; and this time, you know, things are a little bit more complicated. We're recording this toward the end of September 2020. And we're still dealing with rough times all over the world.

Phil
Yeah, very much.

Jeff
You know, people, whether they're senior or less experienced, kind of have an idea of how to network in person, not given the situation in person doesn't really exist to the degree that they did before. So we're going to be talking about digital networking. And I'm wondering, what, look, let's look at how people can do this kind of networking in these times; get some of the results that they've gotten when they were doing face to face networking.

Phil
For sure! You know, I think the first point I'd start with is that you can still face to face network digitally. I think a lot of people think about digital networking is things like building up a mailing list, or adding loads of people to their LinkedIn and having huge networks across social media. And for me, unless you're actually putting those things into practice, they're just numbers; they don't really do anything for you. I mean, look at us, we're on completely different sides of the planet, and we're face to face networking right now. And, okay, we're not in the same room, but actually, it breaks down a lot of barriers because if for you and I to get in the same room together, that would take quite a lot of coordinating, even pre COVID, it would have taken a lot of planning, a lot of travel, we'd have been booking out several days each for the travel and to get around. Meetings, even if you're just meeting people in the same city.

I've done a lot of work globally, but you know, I always think back to my time in London, and I couldn't do more than two or three meetings in a day in London, because of the time it would take me to travel from one side of the city to the other. Whereas doing it digitally, I can fit in 5, 6,7 meetings in a day and have decent amounts of time to build those relationships with people.

And I think what a lot of people have found interesting once they've got over that initial fear, and let's call it a fear of, I don't know how to network digitally, I don't know about Skype, I'm not sure about video conferencing, I'm not sure about all that kind of stuff. Once you put that to one side and realize it's still just a conversation and you're still just able to communicate with people, I think you'll actually find that it's enjoyable. Because you're no longer limited to networking with the people who are within a 60-minute drive of where you live or where you work. You can now network with people globally, and that has real power to it; because you know, you're saying this about recruitment, even recruiting people. If you're a business, it's not worked out that actually, it's quite effective to work from home, and that there are certain positions that this works really well for. You're no longer restricted by the shackles of trying to recruit people within 60 minutes’ drive of your office, and instead, you can now recruit the best person for the job no matter where they are anywhere across the country or indeed, globally.

Jeff
It's interesting. You mentioned what I'll playfully refer to as antique zoom.

Phil
Yeah.

Jeff
Skype.

Phil
Yeah.

Jeff
And I'll also mention, I saw today that LinkedIn has added something in the messaging capabilities, where the video is much more accessible. So you can now do zoom teams, and Blue Jeans, through LinkedIn as a new feature and thus, people that you're connected with, it's easier to reach out and get that visual thing without the step of having to, "Hi, would you be free to such and such date"?

Phil
Exactly!

Jeff
You can see them on using the little dot and messaging, and see if you can catch them that way.

Phil
I love it. And you know, I really hope that they extend the amount of time that you can send audio notes for because at the minute, it's limited to 60 seconds. And I think I would like to see it more like a WhatsApp feature; because at the moment to get around that. I'm essentially sending a short podcast, sometimes no more than five to 10 minutes, but it's an audio recording that I'm sending to them in a message to say, "Here's why I'd like to hook up for a conversation". However, I want to make sure that this resonates with both of us. And I think it helps you to stand out as well because everybody I mean, I'm sure it's the same for you, I must receive 10, 15, 20 messages a day on LinkedIn. Some of them are quite short and snappy, others are like full sales pitches, and half the time I don't even read them. You know, you open it, you realize someone's pitching you something and it's an automated message and you close back off again, but somebody's sending you a video or a personalized audio note to say, "This is why I'm engaging with you. This is why I'd like a conversation". It gives them a snapshot, it gives them the ability to engage with that whenever they choose to do so, but it also gives them a lot more meat on the bones, and it still feels a lot more personable.

Jeff
And what software are you using to record the audio?

Phil
Good question. So I use a well, it's quite a few actually. So I use squad cast to record my podcasts, I do use zoom quite a lot; because zoom allows you to do the video and separately the audio, but I also use a tool called bounce cast. I highly recommend it. In fact, for anybody who's interested in it, if you go to Google and type in bounce cast, one word, and then the phrase app Sumo, there's actually a lifetime special discount on there at the moment, I'm pretty sure it's there until the end of the year. But that's an incredible piece of software for editing sort of background noise and from files that you can import in. But you can also record directly into it, and it gives you the ability to just publish a really nice, neat mp3 and away you go.

Jeff
And what you're doing is recording and then transmitting it. Are you posting it somewhere and just sending a link? Are you using the full audio to message people? How are you doing that?

Phil
Good question. So I think I use both, it depends on the length of the recording. So if it's more than 10 minutes, the file size tends to be too big to just send the mp3 in a chat and it will sort of moan at you about file sizes. So I have, where we host our podcasts, we have pod bean and we also have captivate, but I also have what I classes in my billionaires inboxes training podcast, which is not listed anywhere, it's a privately podcast, you have to have the link to be able to engage with it, and I tend to use that quite a lot. If I'm sending something that's maybe over 10 minutes, I'll pop it up the mp3 on there, and I'll just send the URL link to the person I want to hear it

Jeff
Interesting. And thus folks, what you’re noticing are we're talking about different solutions from a digital basis in order to connect with people, so they'll want to talk with you.

Phil
Absolutely.

Jeff
If you send the same four line text that translates into, "Hi, I'd really like to pick your brain". I hate that phrase, by the way. The brain is a scab that has to be picked.

Phil
Yeah.

Jeff
And for folks who will listen to this as a podcast at some point, there was a grimace on Phil's face when I described it that way. It's a painful thing. And you just want to get personality out there, which is the big advantage to digital. If you think you can be seen, your expressions become a big part of this. If you can be heard, it's your voice and the energy that you carry, and the sincerity that you communicate in your message that becomes important. And thus, if you're reaching out to connect with someone who you've never spoken with, do you think they'd rather read three lines of text asking if you think you can pick their brain, or where they prefer hearing your voice and getting a sense of whether you might be worth talking to from that?

Phil
Well, I'll give an example: A few years ago, I actually did away with resumes; I really don't like CVS and resumes at all. And, you know, they were originally sort of came around in the 1600s, when they're originally designed, and they've not really changed all that much since. They are a list of accomplishments and achievements. And there's usually a personal statement in there that read something along the lines of, "I'm an enthusiastic person, I'm confident, I'm motivated". It's like; everybody says the same nonsense, okay. And as somebody who's worked in the talent profession for a long time, I am sick to death of reading resumes, that all sound the same. And let me tell you something as well, some of the greatest people I've ever met who are really good at their job were horrific at writing a resume, and vice versa. Some people that I've interviewed that I thought this person is a golden goose, I cannot wait to meet them because their resume is just perfect, they did not live up to that resume, they that was not who turned up for the interview. I almost thought they'd sent somebody else.

So we started to do what we called one-sheets. And that one sheet is essentially it's a marketing term. And it's essentially a list of your achievements. It's no, no fluff, no, no, none of that. It's just a list of achievements of these are the top things that I've achieved in my career, and this is where I did it. Accompanying that is usually a no longer than a two to four minute recorded video, which is either recorded selfie style using your cell phone, or indeed, as we are right now using Skype, or sorry, using zoom. And it's so easy to do, but what that allows the employer to do is hear your voice, see your expressions, hearing your voice, whether this resonates with them or not. Often we never like to tell people what to say, but it's often along the lines of, "doing research on your company, I found x" that really resonated with me; because of why this is how I fit into that. I can see where your journey is going, and I'd love to be a part of that, and this is what I bring to the table. "Here's my list of achievements that runs alongside it. If this is resonating with you, too, let's arrange a call". That leads to more door opening opportunities in your career than just blasting your resume out to 100 companies ever would.

Jeff
And those folks recognize this is not a strategy that you can use, if you're foolish enough to be uploading resumes to applicant tracking systems; because the systems won't accept the video file.

Phil
It won't.

Jeff
So what you need to be doing is do what I always tell you to do, never, ever apply for a job through an applicant tracking system, you want to find a real decision-maker, and be communicating with them directly. So that this way, they're able to make the choice and go, "Ah, interesting, or na", whichever one it is, but you get into a real person could make the decision rather than the filter that gets in the way.

Phil
What would it really does, so to kind of add some meat on the bones of that I was a recruitment director as head of talent and people across Africa for the second largest real estate company in Africa, and we used to get inundated with responses. Now I have to be honest, most of the applicants that applied or many of the applicants that applied wouldn't have the relevant experience, they wouldn't have the relevant qualifications that would just be what I called chances. And there's nothing wrong with that, but there was a way of dealing with it. So I remember at one month, we'd receive just over 6000 resumes. Now, how am I supposed to go through 6000 resumes in a month, I still have a job to do. So we introduced an applicant tracking system, and it was entirely keyword based. So if you got above a certain percentage of keywords in your resume, then you would go into a list of people that I would then review, if you didn't have enough of those keywords in your resume, you would be put into a pile and two days later, you'd be sent an automated message to say, "Thank you, but you've not been accepted on this occasion". So I didn't even get to see your resume. It didn't even appear on my desk. It just wasn't even an option for me.

However, I'll tell you this, every single person that called me, every person that sent me a video message, or every single person that sent me an audio message to say, "This is why I think I would be good for this. This is why I would like to have a conversation", every single one of them got an interview, Bond non, bond none because I appreciated the fact that you took the time to come and seek me out and have a conversation with me. Because recruitment and talent is all about people, people buy people, people connect with people. I'm not saying that every single one of those people got a job, but they every single one of them got the opportunity to come to the door and have that conversation. So if you are finding yourself sort of sat at home I mean, especially during this period, you know you maybe you found yourself retrenched, or redundant, or your businesses closed down you're looking for a new opportunity, and you're getting frustrated at the fact that I see it all the time on LinkedIn. I'm sure you do as well, Jeff, you know, in terms of, "I've applied for 100 jobs over the past two weeks, and I've not heard back". It's like, well, that's your problem, you are just spamming jobs and hoping for the best, you'd be far better putting that same time and effort into creating a list of 10 15, 20 businesses that you would love to work for, identifying who the right people are to speak to within those businesses, and approaching them either. There are email tools out there where you can find them, you could approach them on LinkedIn, you could approach them on social media, but do something personable to stand out whether that's video. If you don't want to do video, then do audio, but do something other than just, 'here's a cold email with my resume, now hire me', you know, you will get out the effort that you put in.

Jeff
It's so funny. So often, I tell people that when you apply for a job in the ways that people normally do, it's like being efficient upon with thousands of other fish, all looking at the one hook warnily, and only one fish is going to get on the hook.

Phil
I understand.

Jeff
My belief is you look for ways to cut the line. And as used to happen in nightclubs, there's a front door, which is what the pond is, there's a back door, and there's also a side door, and your ideas to find out whether there's a backdoor you can get in or a side door that you can get through, that's going to get you to have the chance. That's really your point, is to have the chance.

And I want to come back to her core conversation, which is really about digital networking. And we've spoken about a couple of techniques, which right off the bat, we began with, you know, with face to face being hampered. LinkedIn and messaging through LinkedIn is a great way to connect with people. We've also talked about how to reach out to people using some of the tools that exist that people may not be thinking of, in order to forward information through video and audio, coupled with in your case of one sheet. And if people are uncomfortable with that, okay, you send the resume, and so be it. I think you can simplify the resume once you're doing a video or an audio.

Phil
Agreed.

Jeff
You know, when push comes to shove, and that's, you know, it's another way of making contact, and cutting the line and standing out, so you're just not another fish in the pond. What else can people be doing to get themselves in, to connect with people digitally, rather than just simply the same old, same old?

Phil
Yeah, you know, so I think this, one of the things that happened during COVID-19 is that a lot of the exhibitions and events that take place globally, are now happening virtually. So you now have a much wider range of places that you can go and network with people in your industry. You can do continuous professional development, and you're going to meet people at these events and exhibitions that will do wonderful things for your career.

Now, pre-COVID that would have required a lot of money and travel; I mean, if you've ever been to these exhibitions, you know that all of the hotel prices go up quite astronomically around the event, and you've got to travel there, and you go and have to take several days out of work. And there's a lot of frog kissing as well at those things; because some of its great and some of its garbage. And the ability to be able to do that from home, I mean, I have no virtual events on in the background while I'm working and then a speaker or catch my air and I go, "That's really interesting, I'm going to stop what I'm doing and go and watch". But there are opportunities for chat, there are opportunities for talking. Don't ever underestimate the power of listening. So people, when you think about networking, people think instantly about talking, it's like, "Okay, I'm going to talk to all of these people". Well, some of the biggest and best opportunities, both in terms of winning clients, and in terms of a book deal, and a television deal, and a radio hosting deal, all of which I now really enjoy, and we have a lot of success with, they came about because I listened to somebody else's content. I listened to somebody's podcast, I listened to somebody doing a virtual event; and then I contacted them to say, thank you for what you said, "I really enjoyed this, this and this part. Do you mind if I asked you a question about this because this is kind of, it sparked my interest". And the amount of times that that then leads to a nice flowing conversation back and forth, where it's like, you know, there's nothing wrong with putting in; if this is your sole intention, then you're going to come unstuck.

But if you're having a genuine conversation with somebody, and at the end of that conversation, you say," I've really enjoyed this. Thank you so much. You know if there's anybody else that you think I should be speaking to about this, I'd really appreciate an introduction. Just to let you know I am actually in the market for new opportunities in this field at the moment". The amount of times that that turns into, "Oh, I know this guy who's looking for this, or I know this person who's looking for this, or I'll introduce you to this woman, she's brilliant; and she'll help you with this, and this". You don't have to do this all by yourself, but that magic starts with listening, not with talking.

Jeff
There's someone like coach now who, you know, he's a consultant. And he spent a lot of time, "I do my assignment, and I go out and try and find another assignment", and between assignments, he does nothing to promote himself.

Phil
Yeah.

Jeff
And now that he's been off billing for a while, we've been creating systems that allow him to network more regular life, this led him to, now he's in New York right now. It led him to somewhere in the UK with, you know, a well-recognized presence in his field, who in turn pointed into someone on the other Coast of the United States, also well recognized. The two of them on different coasts of the US have been talking on and off now for five months. And the result is they're going to be collaborating on a paper with the other person's name out front because he's the celebrity in the field.

Phil
Yep.

Jeff
But it's also a credential for him now.

Phil
Understand.

Jeff
That's going to make things so much easier for him. Once he, this paper comes out. So, folks, there are lots of ways to look at this beyond simply, "I want a job, I want a job. I must get a job". Think long term and short term concurrently, and the things that you can do to promote yourself digitally, in order that people are reaching out to you, which is really what you want. If you're always the one knocking on doors, that's like, emailing resumes.

Phil
You're a brand and I think a lot of people forget about that. You are a personal brand. We live in a digital world. And the more of that prime digital real estate that you can claim through your networking. So I'll give you a great example, we were talking about this in the green room. I, unfortunately, fell ill earlier in the year. I developed COVID. And I was one of these people, I was quite lucky that I suppose you could say lucky. I didn't require hospitalized treatment, I didn't need a ventilator. I was just I probably had five to 10 days of a horrific fever, lots of vomiting, I felt like my chest was crushed in a vice for about a month. And yeah, it's not a very pleasant experience, to say the least. However, I'm still struggling with a lot of those symptoms, you'll see this plaster on my nose, and you know, it's not here, so I look cool. I'm not trying to be Nelly, you know, this is for those of you old enough to remember who Nelly is. But, you know, I'm wearing this because it's helped me with my breathing. Now, the reason I'm bringing this up is my business is still growing during this time.

We have recruited since COVID happened; we have recruited in five new countries to us. We have clients internationally that we're working with both on the media side with my coaching work in the podcast media, but also with the talent side of the business as well. Now, that's happened entirely because of my podcast. So I'm ranked as one of the top 100 podcasters, globally. Similar to you, I've been doing podcasting for over 10 years now.
I remember the old days of sitting on my kitchen counter editing the podcast where somebody was heavily breathing or that guy who microphones rubbing against his top the whole time and you just, you know you want to it's all on one audio file at this point as well, so almost impossible to edit out. But persistence is the key, so the vast majority of my networking takes place via podcasting. You know, as I said, it's led to some incredible opportunities and some incredible deals. But suffering from fatigue, like really bad fatigue, and having you know waking up one day with a horrific migraine and shortness of breath, and not knowing how long that's going to keep you in bed for; had my business still have been as it was pre podcasting, which is, you know, a lot of cold calling a lot of email marketing, a lot of social media, a lot of face to face, a lot of events, I would be in a world of pain right now with my business. We would not be growing; we would probably not exist, because I needed to have that digital real estate and that digital platform.

But because that content is evergreen, and I'm sure you find the same Jeff; because that content is evergreen and people can engage with it, I'm always amazed by how many people will come to me and say, "Oh, I heard your interview with x. I really enjoyed it. Could we talk about this"? And I'm thinking, "That was six months ago, that was like 12 months ago that interview that's", that's amazing that that's still working. It's still doing these things for me in the background. But that's only because I put myself out there, I didn't have some magic skills that your listeners or viewers don't have. You all have a story to share and something to say. You would never run out of things to say in an interview where if I put you in a room full of your peers, you never run out of things to say. If you do that digitally and you start to share those conversations, the right opportunities will start to find you, rather than you just need to go out and hammer on doors.

And you mentioned the word about job, you know, people saying, "I'm looking for a job". I actually don't even like the word job. And the reason I don't like the word job, his job for me is kind of that thing that you do, because you need to pay the bills. I want to help people find a career. I want to help people build a career that they love, rather than the kind of the, I need to tick this box, or I'm struggling right now because I need to get paid, so I'm going to go and find a job. I'm going to go and find this. Well, there's nothing wrong with being paid for something that you love to do. So don't sell yourself short by just saying, right, "I'm going to go and find something that I can do. It's not what I want to do, but I need to pay my bills'. Because now you're doing the whole want to need thing has overtaken what your desire to do, and what feels right, and where you're going to be investing your time.

And most of us only get paid once a month, particularly in salaried positions, you get paid once a month. And I don't know about you, but usually within the first week or two of having been paid, my bank account is not looking as healthy as it was, particularly when I was sort of in that employed world. So for two weeks of the month, which is half of that month, you're already looking forward to the next payday. So there has to be something additional in there, other than just the money. I want anybody who's listening to this to take away that they can find something that can reward them and provide for their family, but that they love to do at the same time.

Jeff
And folks, I will say a lot of this falls over the notion of what makes you different. You know, in the US, yeah, we've got over 300 million people in the country. And a lot of people do the same work that you do. What makes you different? Can you express it? Now I'm not saying you're the best or what have you, but there is way too bland yourself, and I use myself as an example. One day I woke up and I realized that every recruiter in the United States; and I stopped doing recruiting years ago, but every recruiter in the United States to find themselves as a recruiter, executive recruiter, VP of talent acquisition, VP, talent acquisition for North America, partner; some glorified title, even when people had two weeks of experience.

Phil
Yep.

Jeff
And thus, I tried to figure out what can I do to distinguish myself, into my head, pop the term, "'The Big Game Hunter, which had an association with head hunters that was close enough that people would get it. I trademarked it, built a brand around it, started the first and easing of all ridiculous things that we can point to, which I discontinued a couple of years ago, but out for more than 15 years. The podcast started almost 10 years ago, and we'll hit Episode 2000 in November.

Phil
Love it!

Jeff
Yeah, everyone says the same thing.

Phil
That's awesome. I really love that I really do.

Jeff
My YouTube channel, probably with about six and a half thousand videos on it, at job search tv.com; and more and more people get to know like, trust, and respect me, and that's the point that I want to get to with you folks. The things that you do, they get you out of the comfort zone. And away from your fear of being noticed and seen, and out and more visible is what these times and future times are going to demand. And if you stay hidden away squirrel in your cubicle, taking the tube home, that's for my English listeners, subway home trail for the Americans. And there you're hiding away and not doing things to make yourself known. You're just like every other fish. And is that the way you want to be living the rest of your career?

Phil
Yeah, it's such a huge, hugely important point. I mean, you've touched on something, three words that I use a lot, which is, know, like, and trust. Know, like, and trust is a huge part of this because there are young, sounds awful, you're not unique in terms of your skillset, your skillset is not your is not unique. What is unique is you as an individual. And, you know, we've all I'll take it away from talent and recruitment just for a minute because you know, your viewers and listeners will resonate with this, I'm sure. We've all met people in our lives, whether that's a spouse, whether that's a friend, you know, whoever that you know, very quickly, whether you want to be spending more time with this person. Some people will call it a gut feeling, some people will call it, they resonate with them, some people will say that they gel with them, whatever that phrase that you want to use. There are in every situation you will either say, you know, this is somebody who I think my path aligns with and I want to get to know them better, or you know, the opposite. We've all met people who you meet and you just go, I want to spend as little time with that person as possible. Not because there's anything wrong with them, just because you're on very different frequencies and it doesn't fit, it doesn't gel.

Now, there's nothing wrong with that. And I think once you get to the stage of realizing that, you know this, there is nothing wrong with that situation, and rejection isn't a negative thing. So if somebody is rejecting you, if you've been in for an interview, and then you've been rejected, that's not a negative thing, all that simply means is that they didn't feel that you were on the same path as them. And that's a good thing because in 3, 6,12 months’ time if you two working together being on the wrong path, do you have any idea how many times you're going to butt heads, how many times is not going to fit, whereas the opposite is also true. When you find that person that you resonate with when you find that person that you want to go on that journey with them, and they want you on this journey with them, and they want to be part of your journey and your growth, you will still have the occasional buttheads, but it will be overwhelmingly positive; because you're heading to that same goal, you have that same vision, you have that same desire. But you're cheating yourself of the ability to ever find those relationships, if you're not putting yourself out there and saying, "Here's who I am, here's what I stand for, here's what's important to me, and here's what I can bring to the table". That is so much more than a list of the jobs and responsibilities that appear on your resume. In fact, for most of you listening to this, I guarantee that 90% of who you are doesn't even appear on your resume.

Jeff
Amen, brother. And I'll point out folks, it's one of the reasons why would Phil is mentioning how you communicate using digital technology. So they can hear your voice, they can see your manner, they can connect with you as a person, goes a long way toward differentiating yourself from everyone else. That's how you stand out. And for you, veteran people, for you and leadership, know, like, and trust is important. I add the extra piece to this of respect.

Phil
Yes.

Jeff
Because for leadership, in particular, you want to be respected, admired, and a variety of other things, so that people want to tap you on the shoulder and propose opportunities to lead organizations; so don't play small, play big in the world so that this way you're visible and contacted. And Phil, I'd like I asked you, what else haven’t we covered yet that we should in this interview? Because I know there are lots of different things, but what else have we covered that we should have?

Phil
It's a good question. I think the one little golden nugget that I would give to people is, don’t be afraid of the media either. A lot of people are afraid of the media. And having and I was too, which is why I bring it up because my attitude before I started working with media was; how to explain this? That you've probably got to know somebody, your dads got to play golf with somebody or you know, you've got to get an introduction from your uncle who works at Sky or all this kind of stuff. And actually, I was amazed to find that most journalists when they have a requirement for something that they're writing about or a piece, they simply use Google and LinkedIn, they go and do a keyword search and look for who appears a lot of the time. And don't be afraid to get in touch with publications; don't be afraid to reach out to people. Don't be afraid to contact people who are involved in the stories and speak to journalists. You don't have to build this network completely from scratch. I always take it back to the example of you know, when you're growing your podcast, you can't just expect that you're going to put it out there and suddenly you're going to have thousands of listeners; because that's not going to happen, not unless you're spending an awful lot of money in advertising to put it in front of people. The best way to grow a podcast organically is to link with other people who already have that network, and introduce yourself to their network, do a collaboration piece.

Well, take that right back to journalism. Look at the articles that have been written about your industry or sector. Look at the journalists who are constantly writing these pieces. Look at the publications who are covering these stories, read them, engage, listen to the podcast, listen to the radio shows, listen to the talks, and then engage with them. Don't leave it there, that isn't it, that isn't the end of the conversation. That's the beginning of the conversation. That's your ticket to enter that conversation. So don't be afraid to reach out to journalists, and professional speakers, and thought leaders, and influencers in your space and have conversations with them about their work and what they do. Because nothing will grow your career or business faster than linking with the right people who already have a strong and existing network. It's far easier for you to join an existing network than it's going to be to create one from scratch.

Jeff
I know in the United States, there's a site called help a reporter.com, where journalists will put out story ideas that they're working on, and then you respond quickly because there's not a lot of time to respond. And they put out three messages a day with different subjects, almost all of which are not going to relate, but I've had a lot of placement opportunities from these stories I've been quoted in that have made a lot of exposure for me.

Phil
Yep.

Jeff
In the US, I know that's available. Look in your country to see what might be available that's similar, where journalists are reaching out for people to be quoted.

Phil
I actually have one for you that that help. There is an international, there are two international hashtags that you can search for on Instagram, Twitter, and I think they do it on Facebook as well. They probably started doing it on LinkedIn now. One is called a journal request, and the other one is a journalist request. And it's exactly what you're talking about, it's journalists who are looking for particular types of stories, and they will put out a journal request or a journalist requests, hashtag journal requests. And that is just a hashtag; they throw at the end of the question. But the number of times that this is done across LinkedIn and Twitter and things where somebody will just say, "I'm writing a story on X, does anybody know anybody that knows y and z, hashtag journal request". Those opportunities, I mean, we were talking to everybody here, but particularly those of you within leadership, you want to be seen as an influencer and an authority, and gain respect in what you do, you need to be seen in the right publications with the right people. And that phone call is not going to come. Nobody's just going to randomly call you one day and say, Hey, I heard you're really good at what you do. Would you like to appear in ink, or would you like to..."? It's not going to happen.

Yet, if you go out there and actively have conversations with these people, I met once with a freelance journalist, they were writing for a local paper here in the UK. And I had a great conversation with them; they use a couple of my quotes in an article. It was great coverage for them, it was really great for me to be able to use and it was a credibility builder. Six months later, they won a gig with Forbes and came straight back to me and said, "I'm writing this piece, and I’d love to do more of it with you". So I ended up getting a piece written in Forbes about our work, but if I'd have tried to approach Forbes, if I got a phone call, you know hoped for a phone call from Forbes, I'd probably still be hoping for that phone call to come today. You never know who you're going to engage with and where they're going to go, or what their journey looks like. So don't be afraid to start local, and then build nationally, and then build internationally. Don't let imposter syndrome be the thing that stops you; because if you pick up newspapers these days, let's be honest, 60, 70% of them are nonsense stories. You have a far better story to talk about the most of the things in those papers already. You know, these publications have to be released on a regular basis and they're constantly looking for information, so do not be afraid to put your hand up and say, "Here's what I know, here's what I'm good at, here's what I enjoy talking about, and here's how it can add value to somebody else.

Jeff
Bill, this has been fabulous. How can people find out more about you the work that you do, your media stuff? How can they find out more?

Phil
Sure! The best place to go to is billionaires in boxers.com. Nice and easy name,

Jeff
I'm going to translate that for the Americans, billionaires in boxers.com,

Phil
You could also find, in fact, I'm pretty much on every social media platform. And my name is quite unusual, so if you go to Google, and you type in Phil Pelucha. My surname is spelled p e l. u c h a, you will find me everywhere or even just a quick Google search for billionaires inboxers you'll find us. My door is always open. I'm an avid networker, as you've heard. There are lots and lots of content out there for people to engage with as well if you choose to do that before having a conversation. But yeah, feel free to reach out and have a discussion. I'd love to.

Jeff
Thank you. And folks, we'll be back soon with more. I'm Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter. I hope you liked this interview. I sure did; and if you're interested in one on one coaching at my website, which is the big game hunter.us. You can schedule a time for a free discovery call scheduled time for coaching. Read thousands of posts developed over the years that you can watch listen to a regular help you. But they're not really put together for you, which is why I coach. If you just have a question you can have it asked in a couple of different ways: one is you can go to the big game hunter.us forward slash video answer. And you'll post a question you'll get a three to five-minute video back from me, or the big game hunter.us forward slash live; and I'll schedule 15 minutes with you, you'll get your questions answered that way.

Subscribe to my channel on YouTube, at job search tv.com. And if you're watching on YouTube, just click the small icon in the lower right of the picture of me in the upper left to get notified whenever I release something new. And I'm just going to mention a new class on udemy.com. The ultimate job interview framework is available there. And in the next week, the book will be out by the same name, The Ultimate Job interview Framework. Folks, hope you have a great day and most importantly, I want to remind you, to be great.
Take care.

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Jeff Altman, The Big Game HunterJeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with more than 2200 episodes.

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